Will Wind Power Make the Grid Less Reliable?

[LMagic007]

Will Wind Power Make the Grid Less Reliable?
by Carl Levesque, American Wind Energy Association

Will Wind Power Make the Grid Less Reliable?

[forfismum]

Tut tut surely one would not expect to get an unbiased answer to that question from one of the main beneficiaries of the wind-power scam?

[that response given under the new guidelines on politeness etc.24 hours ago I would have said that the post above was a load of crap ,but now all is sweetness and light and I am pleased to go along with the new way of doing things

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Will Wind Power Make the Grid Less Reliable?
by Carl Levesque, American Wind Energy Association

Will Wind Power Make the Grid Less Reliable?

Not necessarily less reliable.
Just limited direct contribution.
There have been a few studies that suggest a limit of about 20%. The reasoning goes that any greater penetration than that requires greater spinning reserve operating at poor efficiency so the net benefits of using a clean green variable source are negated.
Levesque does touch on the need for reserve but, as far as I could see, not the downside of its poor efficiency and the trade-off.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by forfismum

[that response given under the new guidelines on politeness etc.24 hours ago I would have said that the post above was a load of crap ,

But you still saw fit to post it anyway......
Incorrigible.

[forfismum]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

But you still saw fit to post it anyway......
Incorrigible.

I do not wear corduroy.........

But look at my other posts since St Claire swept all evil from our shores, I am knee deep in saccharine and honey and love and ...........


PS 20% would prolly be the very max,at present my spies in the power business are still quaking at the idea of anything over 10%

[kev67]

I haven't read LMagic's link, but one of our lectures indicated strongly that wind power should not make the grid less reliable. One of the lecturer's main points was that the grid can suddenly lose a gigawatt of power, just like that, if a nuclear power station trips or the electricity link to France goes down. Wind energy just would not fall off as abruptly as that. The more widely dispersed the wind turbines are, the less prone to fluctuations wind energy is. There is usually wind blowing somewhere around the UK.

[LMagic007]

Kev67 The article essentially re-iterates your remarks. i.e. that a distributed network helps improve overall stability of winds contribution to the grid. At this stage I wont argue with 20% Lets all see what happens at 10% for the big western economies and then compare notes.

[forfismum]

Originally Posted by kev67

but one of our lectures indicated strongly that wind power should not make the grid less reliable.

"Those who can, do.Those you can't.teach" not my words you understand but a sentiment with which I agree.Pay a visit to a power station,contact the CEGB or their successors and get the facts from the horses mouth.Use some of the secret Masonic words like"ramping" for example and all will be revealed.

[spadlet]

Possible not exactly to the point but it seeemed relevant:

One of the things that needs to be considered when connecting a wind turbine to the National Grid is the capacity of the Local Distribution Network. In the UK the National Grid has historicaly developed to take large electricity loads from a few sources throughout the country and distribute them to the rest of the country. Thus there are networks with different electrical load carrying capacities. I am fairly sure (Besoeker or someone similar might know better) that the transformers used to convert electricity between the networks were designed primarily to transfer current from the higher voltage networks (the one that can take the most electricity) to the lower voltage networks.

If the maximum ammount of electricity that can be generated exceedes the minimum electricity demand on the local distribution network, there may be serious problems. It is not very easy to acurately predict the output of a wind farm half an hour in advance. This means that it may not be possible to reduce the output of other generators on the local distribution network, or increase the ammount of electricity that is being stored within the local distribution network, if the wind farm generates an excess of electricity.

An excess of electricity within a local distribution network may lead to serious equipment problems.

It is possible to upgrade the local distribution network but it costs money which has to come from somewhere. The capacity of the local distribution network can thus impose it's own limits on the ammount of wind farm generating capacity which may be installed.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by spadlet

Possible not exactly to the point but it seeemed relevant:

One of the things that needs to be considered when connecting a wind turbine to the National Grid is the capacity of the Local Distribution Network. In the UK the National Grid has historicaly developed to take large electricity loads from a few sources throughout the country and distribute them to the rest of the country. Thus there are networks with different electrical load carrying capacities. I am fairly sure (Besoeker or someone similar might know better) that the transformers used to convert electricity between the networks were designed primarily to transfer current from the higher voltage networks (the one that can take the most electricity) to the lower voltage networks.

I think that about sums up the distribution network.
One thing I would add is that the transformers that transform from high voltage (HV) to low voltage (LV) will work in reverse i.e. LV in HV out.

Originally Posted by spadlet

If the maximum ammount of electricity that can be generated exceedes the minimum electricity demand on the local distribution network, there may be serious problems. It is not very easy to acurately predict the output of a wind farm half an hour in advance. This means that it may not be possible to reduce the output of other generators on the local distribution network, or increase the ammount of electricity that is being stored within the local distribution network, if the wind farm generates an excess of electricity.

Good points.
There is usually quite a lot of sophisticated protection to prevent such events becoming a problem - that's a whole discipline on its own.
In terms of ability to accommodate load changes, a conventional generator can normally react quite quickly - provided it is on line, of course.
As an example, we put in couple of fairly large generator controllers earlier this year. They were on a system comprising five similar machines. Part of the acceptance tests was to trip two of the five at the same time and make sure the remaining three could take up the load without disruption.

The key factor is having them already on line - spinning reserve.
And that compromises efficiency.