Would you have a solar panel?

[altyfc]

Is it worth having a solar panel in a wet and windswept Cumbria?

If so, where do you get hold of them? Do the people you buy them off also do all the fitting, etc. and can anyone tell me more about these grants...?

Thanks

Aaron

[mgopilot]

Originally Posted by altyfc

Is it worth having a solar panel in a wet and windswept Cumbria?

If so, where do you get hold of them? Do the people you buy them off also do all the fitting, etc. and can anyone tell me more about these grants...?

Thanks

Aaron

No, you are better off with marine grade windpower. The solar panels jumped in price because of demand, not lack of good silicon (which is absurd, as it is extremely plentiful).

[railgal]

Originally Posted by Simon

Depends on how much they cost and whether I'd get a return on my investment in a reasonable time frame. Good idea in principal though.

What is your definition of a reasonalbe time?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by railgal

What is your definition of a reasonalbe time?

I would say around 3-4 years is a reasonable time frame.

[mgopilot]

I wonder if you even get enough sun in the English Isles to EVER have a photovoltaic system pay for itself. Once your winter daily average falls below 4 hours of sun per day, a self-installed system probably will not pay for itself. 5 hours of daily winter sun for a system you have to pay to install.
I'm in an area of 5 1/2 hours average daily winter sun. My self-installed system will pay for itself in 11 years (2009 and half full tracking). A payoff in 4-5 years is unreasonable. Something would be unreasonable, like the electric rates you now pay, or lack of long term thinking ability.

[railgal]

Simon
You would need a lot of sunshine for the system to pay itself off in that time frame.

[mgopilot]

Railgal, In going over the cost /payback of my main system, I did not take into account several factors. One, the power company would have charged $4,950 to bring power to my house, which, in essence knocks 5 years off the original 11 to 6 year payoff--2004. Another is that the power company would not have had the neighbors pay a tap fee because I paid less than $5,000. The lot next door would have been subsidized by me, and the real estate company wanted $18k for it. They later lowered the price to 10k, went bankrupt, someone paid taxes 3 yrs. and then sold it to me for 3.5k!!!! So, in a way, my system was free!!!!
So, I take it back, Simon, you eco-warrior. You can have a system, self-installed mind you, pay for itself in a few years. Sometimes just having power, quietly, in a building that is hard to get to, is almost priceless. Not looking at ugly power lines can't have a price put on it. For someone that loves nature and technology---it is worth many times the cost. Plus, the power company charges a certain fee every month even if you use no power!!! There is something fundamentally wrong with the grid, to me, anyway, being an eco-warrior for a long time---since the first Earth Day and before. Finding the Real Goods Solar Living Sourcebook at the public library was like finding the Lost Ark of the Covenant for me in 1993, and finding Earthship 1 was like finding the Holy Grail. If you could hear my solar guitar, like the Isle of Wight festival in 1970, the spirit of Jimi. I'm a Voodoo Child.

[simonm]

I have solar PV on my roof, about 30 sq metres which generates about 1,500 Kwhrs per year - not that much really. It was installed when the roof was built and largely as a personal statement than a money saving initiative. That was about 2 1/2 years ago. My Solar Water heating system has been running for 8 months and with the increasing energy costs will most likely pay for itself within 6 years. 3 panels, 6 square metres and a 300litre hot water cylinder plus controls and loads of pipework cost me £3,500. I've documented everything on http://www.solarkent.co.uk.

[mgopilot]

Originally Posted by simonm

I have solar PV on my roof, about 30 sq metres which generates about 1,500 Kwhrs per year - not that much really. It was installed when the roof was built and largely as a personal statement than a money saving initiative. That was about 2 1/2 years ago. My Solar Water heating system has been running for 8 months and with the increasing energy costs will most likely pay for itself within 6 years. 3 panels, 6 square metres and a 300litre hot water cylinder plus controls and loads of pipework cost me £3,500. I've documented everything on http://www.solarkent.co.uk.

Making a statement and walking the talk is what environmentalism should be about. From your information, it looks like the UK gets a little over 1/3 the solar input of the SW USA.

[MarkuisMellvile]

Originally Posted by mgopilot

Making a statement and walking the talk is what environmentalism should be about. From your information, it looks like the UK gets a little over 1/3 the solar input of the SW USA.

That would ba about right, yes. I'm not sure everyone reading this knows what technology is being referred to by the words "solar panel" though.

Solar thermal (domestic hot water) systems payback far faster than solar PV (electricity) systems do. To say that they never pay back is daft though, as unless you stop consuming electricity, you are saving money everyday that you have a PV system supplying your property.

What I really want to post though, is that I think you have a strange idea of supply and demand economics mgo. Sure, there is lots of sand all over the world, but this is not solar grade silicon that you need to make PV.

If the price of something goes up it can be because of people profiteering, but is more likely to be due to the demand for the product out-stripping the supply available.

As more PV cells were needed to match increasing demand, the price of solar grade silicon went up as the mining companies couldn't scale up their production as fast as was required. The relative reduction in supply of solar grade silicone is what drove prices up.

PV payback periods are still in excess of 100 years (on systems with design lives of around 25 years). There are many other carbon neutral energy systems that can produce electricity, but the industry I work in seems to want PV over everything else.

Energy prices are rising (which is good) and the gap between buying mains gas or having a solar water heating panel is reducing. The rise in energy prices makes off-grid power supplies more attractive too, but the main driver in the UK for the continued growth in demand is the planning system and incoming Building Regulations.

In the short-term, having to reduce carbon emissions from buildings and meeting planning policies of using renewables in buildings is increasing the orders placed for renewable energy systems, but in the medium-to-long term the price of oil and gas will drive demand still higher.

As long as solar grade silicon is in short supply, there will be upward pressure on the price of solar PV systems.