Singapore Experience

[dave_spart]

Hi folks,

First time poster.

I am an expat living in sunny Singapore. I am interested in installing solar panels in my apartment. As with most places, finding a shop that sells solar panels isn't exactly easy.

By coincidence, earlier this morning I read an article in the Singapore Straits Times explaining that the Japanese government is hoping to push solar energy again. The article pointed out that Sharp are one of the big names in solar panels.

Armed with that knowledge I contacted Sharp in Singapore to enquire about the cost. Below is the exchange I had with their Sales team - edited to hide my name.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spart [davespart]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:18 PM
To: mh.lye
Subject: Enquiry

Hello,

I have just browsed your website and would like to enquire about the cost of installing a solar power system in a condo apartment here in Singapore.

Regards,

Dave Spart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mh.lye
To: davespart
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:52:01 +0800


Hi Dave,

Solar investment is not practical for domestic appliances and no ROI.

Usually customer install solar is due to environmental purpose.

Thank you.


Best regards,

Lye


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spart [davespart]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:57 PM
To: MH Lye
Subject: RE: Enquiry


Please can you just let me know: how much would such a system cost?

Many thanks,

Dave.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mh.lye
To: davespart
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:44:47 +0800

Hi Dave Spart,

Good Afternoon. Might I know what is the purpose and application of installation of solar ?

Best regards,

Lye

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spart [davespart]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 4:48 PM
To: MH Lye
Subject: RE: Enquiry

Lye,

It’s for domestic use providing power domestic appliances such as air-conditioning, a PC, TV, etc.

Regards,

Dave.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mh.lye
To: davespart
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:05:39 +0800


Dear Dave,

May I know how many kWh do you require for your house?

If base on 1,000kWh/mth then estimate will cost you S$ more than S$220k.

Best regards,
Lye
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spart [davespart]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:08 PM
To: MH Lye
Subject: RE: Enquiry


I would only need about 5kWh say.

Dave.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mh.lye
To: davespart
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:29:06 +0800


Hi Dave,

Might I know 5kWh is per month or per day?


Best regards,
Lye

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Spart [davespart]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:37 PM
To: MH Lye
Subject: RE: Enquiry


Well, lets see,

If there are 24 hours in a day then 5kW used every hour equals 120kWh used in one day.

If there are 365.25 days in a year then 5kWh used every hour equals 43,830 kWh used in one year.

On that basis if there are 12 months in a year then 5kWh used every hour equals 3,653 kWh used one month.

This of course assumes these I am using 5kWh constantly which I won’t of course be true. I only need it during the day as I work from home.

Regards,

Dave.



Hi Dave,

Base on your request, estimate the cost will be S$ 792k.


Best regards,
Lye


As you can probably tell from the exchange MH Lye, Sharp's representative, didn't provide most would what call proactive customer service.

In the first instance Lye didn't want to provide an answer at all.

The assumption this person made was that I was expecting to make a return on investment - mistaking me for a money grabber which I'm not.

Lye required me, the customer, to do some simple maths and then armed with those numbers went on to provide me with what I can only assume is the wrong answer.

In case you're fuzzy on exchange rates S$792,000 equates to about US$579,000 - to generate 5kWh.

If this is how solar is being marketed its no bloody wonder so few people have invested in it. Personally I think Lye and his/her managers need shooting.

If we are to alleviate the energy crisis as many people as possible must switch to renewables and that means proactive sales.

Imbecilic salesmanship like that above is exactly the opposite of what we need.

Yours, Dave.

[spadlet]

Unless they are only interested in making some quick cash? Last time I had some people questioning my motivation for their scheme and leaving me to extract my own detailed information from them they were trying to get people to sign up for a very poor deal.

My first thoughts when I saw the question about your motivation were that
1. Person wanting to do 'their bit to save the planet' might be rather keen to achieve a higher place and prepared to pay whatever it takes
2. Person with an interest in costs and financial pay back might want to see the calculation process behind their quotes and some justification of the ammount that they pay.

It would be interesting to know what calculations and figures they base their

Solar investment is not practical for domestic appliances and no ROI

statement on.

[dave_spart]

I know. Shocking conversation wasn't it.

I've just posted two other threads - one showing how easily available solar panels and wind turbines are - if you look in the right place.

The biggest obstacle preventing mass adoption by consumers is not production but distribution and in particular marketing.

Unless renewable generators like solar and wind are made easily available -right in their faces - on the High Street or Main Street consumers generally won't be bothered to look further.

What's needed is a new globally branded international chain of showrooms with a brand as aspirational, recognisable, fun and sexy as say Rolex, McDonalds, Budweiser or Playboy - specialising in the markering and distribution of renewables - but not just on Main Street, oh no, in every conceivable nook and cranny everywhere.

The biggest complaint people cuurently have about solar is the price. D'ya know why its expensive? Because people don't buy it! Catch 22!

Once we get larger numbers of people adopting, hey presto! The price will rapidly fall making it accessible to everyone.

There was a time long long ago when only the most wealthy people could afford to fly. Then came the massive crisis of WW2.

WW2 forced aircraft manufacturers to manufacture every better aircraft in ever bigger numbers. They developed huge intellectual resources and best of all they developed economies of scale. After the war it made commercial airlines a whole lot cheaper and more accessible to the masses to the point now where we have no-frills airlineswith flights cheaper than trains!

Lets hope the current problems in the world economy - credit crunch, sub-prime, oil prices, commodity prices, food prices, population explosion and all the other demands on resources - do for renewables what WW2 did for passenger airfares.

[blackfoxtrade]

You could also try eBay --> eBay Singapore - Buy or sell practically anything on eBay, the world's online marketplace
The choice is limited, but take a loot at them. Of course, you would like one with installation instructions. As I've understood it, Alibaba is a wholesale directory and is designed for businesses not home users.

[spadlet]

It does sound like a good plan BUT the only similar thing I can think of to date is the stuff done by B&Q in the UK. They had Windsave microscale wind turbines for sale in their stores but none of the literature I saw gave any presales attempt to help customers get an idea of the wind resource at their property, explain planning restrictions and impacts or provide maintanence support. I have heard of some companies having to refuse to sell people wind turbines because they would not believe that they didn't not have a significant wind resource at their site and the company didn't want accusations that their product was a waste of money/didn't work.

Consumers don't always understand how technologies work or make provision for the maintenece required. I don't think that it would help and renewables industries long term if there is a load of glossy marketing that diesn't take into account local conditions and appropriateness.

If somebody phones up wanting to know more about the domestic installation of a product, I think that the first question should be 'why?'
If a person says 'because I want the technology' again the person should be encouraged to think why they want it.

If a pesron wants to reduce their environmental impact then they should be encouraged to do the most ecconomic things first, such as adapting their house to the local environment to reduce their energy requirements (in the UK that involves ensuring a ceetain thickness of insulation). If a person has limited funds and has not done this then such activity would be more beneficial long-term than spending the same money on energy generating technology without reducing consumption requirements.

The next step should be to assess the property to find which renewable electricity technology is most appropriate for the local environment. If the house is on a windy mountain top then wind may be more ecconomic than solar photovoltaic. If the property is at the bottom of a south facing valley then solar photovoltaic may be more ecconomic than a wind turbine etc. The technology used should produce the optimum energy for the situation.

I guess that maybe a slight tweaking of your idea would be to have a series of franchises/outlets that have expertise in resource estimates for all of the renewable technologies appropriate for a country and work closely with/have a team of people which can deal with the specifics of each technology. If they also did home improvement work first it would be even better.