On the Rise: Solar Thermal Power ?

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Wobs

That's the sort of scaremongering that gives the environmental movement a bad name.

Ahh I see you seem afraid of reality. Those most scared are those that fear the truth. That's ok, the reality can be disconcerting and uncomfortable at times.

Originally Posted by Wobs

So when such technology continues to only makes up a small percentage of the world's energy, you'll blame the people.

Ahh no you said that, not me. Twisting the truth again. It seems you just love to put words in peoples keyboards. The technology will do whatever it does and I suspect you will have little bearing on that. It's growing rapidly and if it continues, so be it. I suspect your arguments would just not sway a change of course.

Originally Posted by Wobs

Read your own posts. That is where the conflict lies.

Without conflict there is no progress. The right amount and we evolve. If we remain sitting around going on like parrots with our heads stuck in the sand living in denial, we regress.

Originally Posted by Wobs

Don't believe you

Don't need you to.

Originally Posted by Wobs

The world isn't about to end.

The world is changing. As said, change on mans part is what's required and is what's happening, whether we like it or not, so best we prepare for that change, because it's happening in front of us. Solar Thermal energy is likely to be a significant part of that change.

[Wobs]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Ahh I see you seem afraid of reality. Those most scared are those that fear the truth. That's ok, the reality can be disconcerting and uncomfortable at times.

More projection

Ahh no you said that, not me. Twisting the truth again. It seems you just love to put words in peoples keyboards. The technology will do whatever it does and I suspect you will have little bearing on that. It's growing rapidly and if it continues, so be it. I suspect your arguments would just not sway a change of course.

Twisting what people said? Again, your habit projected onto me.

Without conflict there is no progress. The right amount and we evolve. If we remain sitting around going on like parrots with our heads stuck in the sand living in denial, we regress.

So constructive discussion doesn't enter your world? You must have conflict? This explains a lot. Why you refused to discuss on the previous thread.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Wobs

More projection

More projection about More projection

Originally Posted by Wobs

Twisting what people said? Again, your habit projected onto me.

More projection about More projection

Originally Posted by Wobs

So constructive discussion doesn't enter your world? You must have conflict? This explains a lot. Why you refused to discuss on the previous thread.

Your constructive discussion seems to have ended long ago, when you started repeating the same old themes, that are clearly not deemed so important as to shake the Solar Thermal industry in its knees. Thus I suspect the limits you perceive, are largely a figment of your imagination, until proven otherwise. When you convince the rest of the world that you are right and they are wrong by your earth shattering revelations about the limits of renewable energy such as Solar Thermal energy with thermal storage, let me know and I will be the first to congratulate you. I expect I will be waiting along time for that though.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by Wobs

Capacity factor is one issue, but you must realise that there is a limit to what storage by molten salt can acheive. If a system has a large storage capacity it could spend too much time supplying that rather than the grid. So capacity factors of 70% maybe ideals, but might not reflect reality.

That depends on what is meant by capacity factor. The solar collector array may have a rated capacity of say, 20MW. That capacity can be used when there is solar energy to collect. A 50% capacity for that part of the plant alone would be optimistic. If that's considered as part of overall plant capacity, then overall plant can't do better than 50%.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

That depends on what is meant by capacity factor. The solar collector array may have a rated capacity of say, 20MW. That capacity can be used when there is solar energy to collect. A 50% capacity for that part of the plant alone would be optimistic. If that's considered as part of overall plant capacity, then overall plant can't do better than 50%.

Yes so it might be best for people to reach mutual appreciation of the terminology to derive meaningful comparisons that can be discussed in a balanced way. Clearly capacity factor even if agreed upon in terms of terminology, will vary according to geographic location and other factors. It also makes sense to build the plant configuration that best optimises the various aspects of collectors, concentrators, storage and generator in context of climatic conditions, load per rated output capacity and other relevant factors. Its easy to make a blanket claim about what's reasonable or achievable, but without sufficient contextual detail, that can be a fairly meaningless assessment.

[Wobs]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

More projection about More projection



More projection about More projection

You do realise I have a copywrite on that phrase. That's 4 beers you me.
Oh yes, and you're talking nonesense of course.

Your constructive discussion seems to have ended long ago, when you started repeating the same old themes, that are clearly not deemed so important as to shake the Solar Thermal industry in its knees. Thus I suspect the limits you perceive, are largely a figment of your imagination, until proven otherwise. When you convince the rest of the world that you are right and they are wrong by your earth shattering revelations about the limits of renewable energy such as Solar Thermal energy with thermal storage, let me know and I will be the first to congratulate you. I expect I will be waiting along time for that though.

More nonesense.
Please point out where I am try to "convince the rest of the world"?

In the real world, many system are limited by a combination of factors, by factors that the people promoting it don't mention. I've seen this in industry many time. That's why some of us discuss these technologies on forums, to see whether they stand up to such claims. Its called learning.

I've shown many issues that you won't even address, so what's your point exactly?

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Wobs

You do realise I have a copywrite on that phrase. That's 4 beers you me.

I think you've had enough already.

Originally Posted by Wobs

Please point out where I am try to "convince the rest of the world"?

Nobody said you were. But if you were to have any chance of that, your arguments would have to be far more convincing than they are. The world needs to heed good advice and if your advice is of such great importance to our future, perhaps we need to alert the world to stand up and take notice of Wobs ground breaking point of view.

Originally Posted by Wobs

In the real world, many system are limited by a combination of factors, by factors that the people promoting it don't mention. I've seen this in industry many time. That's why some of us discuss these technologies on forums, to see whether they stand up to such claims. Its called learning.

Discussing issues on forums offers no guarantee that any claims can effectively be measured against reasonable criteria, that would see such claims either stand or fall in the more reasonable eye of general consensus. It's simply not a medium upon which such determinations can be reasonably made with great confidence. Most forum posts from all sides on all arguments are mere speculation and opinion and largely unproven at that. At the end of the day, people just have to make up their own minds, based on what's posted and what other research they may conduct for themselves, which by the way is highly recommended, so they can satisfy their own judgment.

Originally Posted by Wobs

I've shown many issues that you won't even address, so what's your point exactly?

Not at all. The issues you have shown I have addressed and you just keep repeating them. You have offered nothing new. You have talked about environmental issues, capacity factors and base load power etc... which have all been acknowledged as real issues, that however are all manageable, even with a strong growth paradigm for Solar Thermal technology. None of these issues will stop Solar Thermal technology from offering a significant contribution to our future global energy mix. As I said, if it all comes to a screaming halt, you will be the first to be congratulated for your great vision. It may take a while for that though. I have made my point that I think Solar Thermal has great potential and if you can't appreciate that by now, then perhaps try whale watching instead.

[prashamk]

Guys can we get back to the topic? Please.

[Wobs]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

I think you've had enough already.

One can never have enough ale.

Wobs wrote:

Please point out where I am try to "convince the rest of the world"?

Lmagic007 wrote:

Nobody said you were.

You did:

When you convince the rest of the world that you are right and they are wrong by your earth shattering revelations

Discussing issues on forums offers no guarantee that any claims can effectively be measured against reasonable criteria, that would see such claims either stand or fall in the more reasonable eye of general consensus. It's simply not a medium upon which such determinations can be reasonably made with great confidence. Most forum posts from all sides on all arguments are mere speculation and opinion and largely unproven at that. At the end of the day, people just have to make up their own minds, based on what's posted and what other research they may conduct for themselves, which by the way is highly recommended, so they can satisfy their own judgment.

So you're saying your points are worthless as well?

Not at all. The issues you have shown I have addressed and you just keep repeating them. You have offered nothing new. You have talked about environmental issues, capacity factors and base load power etc... which have all been acknowledged as real issues, that however are all manageable, even with a strong growth paradigm for Solar Thermal technology. None of these issues will stop Solar Thermal technology from offering a significant contribution to our future global energy mix. As I said, if it all comes to a screaming halt, you will be the first to be congratulated for your great vision. It may take a while for that though. I have made my point that I think Solar Thermal has great potential and if you can't appreciate that by now, then perhaps try whale watching instead.

I'm still waiting for you to address all the points I've raised.
And even to consider more than one in combination. You know, like the real world has to with these kind of issues.

Tried whale watching. They swam.

[adi]

Gentlemen, can we return to the topic please