Green Peace Leader Rags on Solar Power

[Wobs]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

It's a dead ball now. A range of storage technologies have been discussed some direct electrical, others indirect converted energy. Each to their own opinion. It's not worth allowing that aspect get in the way of more constructive discussion about the core issue of energy storage technologies. Otherwise we will just be going around in circles, wasting each others time.

Sorry I was reading the last post that was on subject. I was under the impression that that was part of the discussion.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Wobs

What makes people think that hydro electric plants don't emit greenhouse gases?

Hydroelectric power's dirty secret revealed - earth - 24 February 2005 - New Scientist

It might be interesting to see a full scientific study of this phenomena from both sides of the argument.

[forfismum]

Just before his mysterious disappearance Forfi had been working on a tiny thingie for storing massive amounts of energy.He used to mumble something about "Tom....Tom .."in his sleep but we did not know any Tom. We did find a torn bit of paper in his [at that time ]unexploded shed on which was written "OM" and "AT" but we never did figure this out.Maybe one of our sparkling mods could work out the jig-saw?

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by forfismum

Just before his mysterious disappearance Forfi had been working on a tiny thingie for storing massive amounts of energy.He used to mumble something about "Tom....Tom .."in his sleep but we did not know any Tom. We did find a torn bit of paper in his [at that time ]unexploded shed on which was written "OM" and "AT" but we never did figure this out.Maybe one of our sparkling mods could work out the jig-saw?

I'm guessing you might be bored. He probably got irradiated and vaporized into thin air, thus explaining his disappearance. Either that or he was put into an institution for troubled youth ({[.]}).

[forfismum]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

I'm guessing you might be bored. He probably got irradiated and vaporized into thin air, thus explaining his disappearance. Either that or he was put into an institution for troubled youth ({[.]}).

And is that your last word on the subject ?

[LMagic007]

Anyway getting back on topic for a change, one may at times wonder if Patrick Moore's seemingly somewhat unqualified remarks, rather guns blazing in delivery, might reflect an undercurrent of bitter cynicism. The picture Moore seems to offer, appears like a snapshot of the status quo on dollar cost, presented in terms of generalities, with scant acknowledgement of the carbon cost factor being the very reason the world seeks clean renewable energy solutions, that over time don't rise as significantly in cost, unlike fossil fuels dilemma the world now faces. Nuclear energy costs could skyrocket without fossil fuels, yet we desperately need to meet a growing energy demand and reduce burning of fossil fuels or clean up their act, adding more costs. The imperative is also for sustainability on several levels, particularly on an environmental and economical basis.

Moore seems to offer no significant acknowledgement of the overall directions that particularly the renewable energy industry is taking. Even conventional energy companies are looking more closely at renewable energy technologies. Many technologies, Solar PV, Solar Thermal, Wind and other will play a role in our energy future and increasingly so as they evolve and mature. One might be forgiven for wondering if Moore's view might come across as provocatively narrow, with controversial intent, to attract attention.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/131753

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/05/the_us_departme.html

http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/3791

http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/Concentrated-Solar-Thermal-Power.pdf

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/troughnet/th...y_storage.html

[screener]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Anyway getting back on topic for a change, one may at times wonder if Patrick Moore's seemingly somewhat unqualified remarks, rather guns blazing in delivery, might reflect an undercurrent of bitter cynicism. The picture Moore seems to offer, appears like a snapshot of the status quo on dollar cost, presented in terms of generalities, with scant acknowledgement of the carbon cost factor being the very reason the world seeks clean renewable energy solutions, that over time don't rise as significantly in cost, unlike fossil fuels dilemma the world now faces. Nuclear energy costs could skyrocket without fossil fuels, yet we desperately need to meet a growing energy demand and reduce burning of fossil fuels or clean up their act, adding more costs. The imperative is also for sustainability on several levels, particularly on an environmental and economical basis.

Moore seems to offer no significant acknowledgement of the overall directions that particularly the renewable energy industry is taking. Even conventional energy companies are looking more closely at renewable energy technologies. Many technologies, Solar PV, Solar Thermal, Wind and other will play a role in our energy future and increasingly so as they evolve and mature. One might be forgiven for wondering if Moore's view might come across as provocatively narrow, with controversial intent, to attract attention.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/131753

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2007/05/the_us_departme.html

http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/3791

http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/Concentrated-Solar-Thermal-Power.pdf

NREL: TroughNet - Parabolic Trough Thermal Energy Storage Technology

Moore reminds me of a young agriculture extension technician we had here for a while who worked tirelessly to bring multi-million secondary industries to the area for the farming community to market our products through. Then he would get himself on the board of directors and pretty soon it would run out of money and he'd be back tirelessly promoting another.

Moore has gone from natural gas to coal to nuclear to large hydro since he left greenpeace. what the heck, eh? plenty of money to go around.

back to earlier comments concerning methane from hydro projects, I don't argue that there is a significant release of global warming gases released when new reservoirs are created over farmland and forest . I wouldn't suggest that any large hydro projects be begun. Existing projects however could be optimized to adjust for alternative energy production.

and forfismums suggestion of using mota, a variety of hemp if I understand it correctly, would have the effect of drawing our attention away from the reality of the situation.

[LMagic007]

Yes one does wonder. There must be plenty of cash going around. Anyone putting bets on where Moore goes next ? I wonder if he may loose credibility over time. Perhaps he was a mole all along and has come out into the open ?

Yes the hydro emissions seems like a tricky one. It would be interesting to see some real figures on that aspect. Three Gorges Dam in China is huge.

About 2,000 troops were sent to work on the dam near the epicenter of Monday's earthquake, after reports of severe cracks, state-run media reported. The Ministry of Water Resources warned that an irrigation system and Dujiangyan City -- which has a population of about 630,000 -- "would be swamped," if major problems emerged at the dam, China.org said.

You don't normally hear China's state media being so frank. One wonders if they are publicly concerned, if it may be even more serious.

Back on topic though, again how much greenhouse emissions from dams is the tricky part it seems. None the less something that should be looked at more closely. Perhaps a general estimate can be arrived at as a starting point.

[screener]

There are a lot of costs that big Hydro has managed to avoid, like methane, bank stabilization, habitat loss, etc. etc. The only reason I bring it up is that it is a pretty obvious means of storing energy for later use, Which if I've been following the discussion enough was part of Moores complaints about solar etc.

as to where moore will go next? where is the most money going to be spent on an energy, or..., development where the promoters do not feel comfortable with their public relations. let's see, maybe an invasion of Iran. I'm sure he could find some way to justify an act like that.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Your were the first one in this thread, who claimed in several posts, that there was not electrical energy storage. Your claim is simply incorrect.

Fine.
If my statement is incorrect then you should have no difficulty in citing a means of practical electrical energy storage. Do so and, at a stroke, you would prove the fallacy of my statement.