Green Peace Leader Rags on Solar Power

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

So there's nothing I have posted that you can show to be factually incorrect. Yet you call my claims laughable.
That's not very nice, you know.

You are welcome to your view, just like everyone else.

[adi]

Gentlemen, either we return this thread to a degree of civility or it gets locked and we move on to other issues.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by adi

Gentlemen, either we return this thread to a degree of civility or it gets locked and we move on to other issues.

If I have said anything that is uncivil, I'm more than happy to retract it.

[adi]

I'm not going to single out anyone but the last few posts havn't really contributed much to the topic

[prashamk]

I have spent whole afternoon reading the entire "log" & I have few points here;

@ Lmagic007 - I have been reading about various renewable technologies since few days. What I have found is that the main lacking factor of all these are their inability to store excess energy.

So instead of trying to improve on production of equipments that produce energy from green sources, why not try and produce better storage devices.

I did some research on storage batteries too and have been very disappointed to know that very little progress have been made since last 3 decades in this field. If this can be sorted out, all the renewable energy sources would become more viable I think.


@ Wobs - While I fully agree on your point that Nuclear is almost Zero Emisson (conditions applied) & reliable energy source, main problem here is waste treatment and safety.

This technology is successfully being used by few countries around the world but I can't imagine enough possibilities if uranium/thorium falls into hands of some of "terrorists countries"

In india few decades ago in a city named bhopal, a Union Carbide subsidiary pesticide plant released / leaked 40 tonnes of methyl isocyanate (MIC) gas, killing approximately 3,800 people (many more people are still affected by the same) More at..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster
If the same happens with nuclear power plant results might be much more far reaching.


@ Adi - I think that the action you took now was needed a bit earlier but we have a proverb in India "Der aaye par durust aye" (Better late than never)

[LMagic007]

prashamk I agree that storage is a important component for Solar energy to expand upon its successes thus far and I have widely made reference to solar thermal energy storage technology that's well evolved now and I understand is far far cheaper than electrical energy storage.

I also agree on the nuclear issue in that there are so many countries that we need to offer clean low tech energy solutions, to help protect our fragile global security, particularly in relation to climate and of course nuclear proliferation.

See about the solar thermal concept including storage here;
www.sener.es/EPORTAL_DOCS/GENERAL/FILE-cwa0fcc36424ab41b7bf04/SOLARTRES.pdf

See what the US is doing today here;
http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/05/_on_the_rise_so.html

http://www.environmentcalifornia.org/uploads/EX/qu/EXqur2dJBZQbJESwUtulZA/On-The-Rise.pdf

Note this Solar Thermal energy technology is evolving quite rapidly now and governments are lining up behind industry in promoting its development, so who knows what they will be saying 12 months from today. I understand China, India and the USA have good solar resources and the likely 3 biggest energy consumers going forward, among other countries. Even Europe is talking about a solar / wind super grid.

http://www.trecers.net/concept.html

A long way to go but as mentioned things are hotting up. No pun intended.

Also see;

The market for electric energy storage worth $2.6 billion in 2008 news on the Electrical news magazine

The electric energy storage (EES) core storage technologies of pumped hydro storage, compressed air energy storage, lead-acid batteries, sodium sulfur batteries, vanadium redox flow batteries, flywheels, superconducting magnetic energy storage and supercapacitors are positioned to make a significant impact over the next 5 years. These technologies can be deployed in various applications along the power chain including use in bulk generation, transmission and distribution, as well as providing enhanced services for the end user.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

prashamk I agree that storage is a important component for Solar energy to expand upon its successes thus far and I have widely made reference to solar thermal energy storage technology that's well evolved now and I understand is far far cheaper than electrical energy storage.

Actually, there is no practical means of electrical energy storage........

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Actually, there is no practical means of electrical energy storage........

Actually there is practical means of electrical storage in certain situations, but its comparatively expensive at present compared to other energy storage technologies, although electrical storage costs are falling. To some degree, the situation of use influences the degree of pragmatism.

[prashamk]

In india government is subsidizing solar cookers/heaters/lights etc. We can buy a set of solar panels its storage battery and 4 sets of CFL bulbs and its holders for around USD 300. You may also opt for a set of 2 CFL and a Fan for the same price. For a house with 3 bedrooms, hall, drawing room and kitchen say around 6-7 sets of this is enough. Cost comes to around USD 2000 + Wiring cost. Roughly this setup lasts around 15 years or so with good cleaning of solar panel.

So if we calculate costs, per month cost of lighting and fans comes to around USD 11.2 (ofcourse without calculating interest on the upfront payment). But I think that we can afford to pay this sort of money to save our environment.

If we don't require energy for lighting means that we shall put lesser load on the power station? Will this help.

Before you jump to any conclusion I would like inform you that the area where I reside recieves sunlight round the year 365 days and plenty of it.

What say?

[Windguy]

Instead of just electrical storage, electrical usage can be enhanced. How you would do that is certain plug outlets in peoples houses only switch on when there is plenty of electricity from windy or sunny day.

An idea is for electric cars to be plugged into these sockets until one hour before they are needed are transfered to the base loading power. Everything can be done electronically so you don't need two positive and two negative lines to each house.

So when there is excess electricity produced, electric cars and hot water systems turn on and when there is none, they don't use a drop of electricity unless they are needed within a certain time, then it will switch to base power the hour before it is needed. We can literally throw about 30% of our energy usage onto when available if we wanted. i.e. how about a battery backup refridgerator where if it drops below a certain temperature it may use base power, otherwise it uses excess power, clock radios, radios, etc, etc.