Scientists Use Sunlight to Make Fuel From CO2

Here is a link for more technical information on how this works http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...-applying.html

It doesn't make sense to me: first you burn coal, which basically creates energy by oxidizing carbon and creating CO2; then you use solar energy to undo that and turn the CO2 back into CO. Wouldn't it make more sense to make electricity directly from the solar energy and not involve the coal at all? Besides which, if the CO is later used as fuel as they say, then eventually you're going to oxidize that anyway and create the same CO2 you would have in the first place. It seems like a very roundabout way to add solar energy into the mix.

[LMagic007]

I think the point to this technology is that it gives another option for making petroleum based fuel. Of course solar to electricity is probably more efficient, but this is also about making fuel for applications where electricity may not be suitable, such as jet fuels for aviation, heavy industrial vehicles etc... and also to allow for the graceful phasing out of fuel based vehicles over say the next 50 years, where conventional fossil fuel prices are expected to increase. Electricity can't cover all applications of modern technology. Fossil fuel usage will be with us for some time yet, so I guess if it can be made more efficient and less polluting that's a positive. With that said, we need to move to electric vehicles as quickly as possible.

[telsa]

.
solar planes are nonsense ,
the thrust to weigh is pathetic , same as bycicle operated plane or steam operated plane for that matter , spending a lot of ressources , in optimum conditions it's just possible to get a prototype of the ground .
prospect for general use ....zilch


.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by telsa

.
solar planes are nonsense ,
the thrust to weigh is pathetic , same as bycicle operated plane or steam operated plane for that matter , spending a lot of ressources , in optimum conditions it's just possible to get a prototype of the ground .
prospect for general use ....zilch

.

I would tend not to entirely agree with that view. The notion of solar powered aircraft needs to be seen in context. i.e. in terms of battery powered / solar boosted battery recharge. For light aircraft this is more likely to be feasible than for heavy aircraft. I would agree that solar only powered aircraft is not feasible, but I doubt many people would seriously think that was the case anyway.

As a battery recharge supplement to extend range and improve operability in remote locations or even as a hybrid fuel / electric solution, I see future promise there. Again though only for light low speed aircraft.

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by telsa

.
solar planes are nonsense ,
the thrust to weigh is pathetic , same as bycicle operated plane or steam operated plane for that matter , spending a lot of ressources , in optimum conditions it's just possible to get a prototype of the ground .
prospect for general use ....zilch


.

I only wondered if the unmanned research such as http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/h...st/helios.html was likely to provide any thing that could be refined for manned aircraft.

[telsa]

. The Helios is unmanned , wildly expensive and fragile as gossamer , once again a tribute to human engineering excellence ,
unfortunately it also demonstrate the end point of solar flight ,
A small motor bike engine of 50 hp 500cm3 capacity can get someone airborne with some safety margin , in fact they do it now in many ultra light ,
there is two use for energy , industrial/domestic and transport ,it's much better to concentrate on a good clean generation system , to power a grid and public transport .
the fuel for free ranging ,individual transport can be synthesized easily from any rubbish if main power is available ,
the explosion engine is irreplaceable for ease of use and scope of application

[LMagic007]

Personally I think it seems almost inevitable that at some point in the not too distant future, electric powered aircraft might become more prominent. As battery power and storage technology improves along with electric engine performance, better aerodynamics and stronger lighter airframes, and improved cost / benefit economies, the probability of electric powered aircraft may be reasonably be expected to increase. Thin film solar panels may be able to play a role in this development.

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by telsa

. The Helios is unmanned

Yes, I did say that it was unmanned

Originally Posted by spadlet

I only wondered if the unmanned research

It's also a prototype that is in the process of development. So it is bound to be expensive. The main intention of the project is not to develop solar powered human air transport. If any technology was found to have a potnential for commercialisation and use in civil aircraft, the cost would decrease due to economies of scale, increases in efficiency, etc.

the Helios Prototype was designed as the forerunner of high-altitude unmanned aerial vehicles that could fly on ultra-long duration environmental science or telecommunications relay missions lasting for weeks or months without using consumable fuels or emitting airborne pollutants.

and

There are a number of potential applications for an "atmospheric satellites". These aircraft may be able to do work such as telecommunications more efficiently and at much lower cost than our current space-based satellites. They could also monitor weather, track hurricanes, and provide coverage of disaster sites such as fires, mud slides, flooding and earthquakes in order to more precisely direct emergency resources.

I was wondering if they might end up developing technologies that would be transferable to civil aviation. Just as solar cell usage was common practice for NASA (as it met the requirements for use outside the Earth's atmosphere better then fossil fuels) long before the general public thought it was fasionable.

[LMagic007]

I do tend to agree that solar power alone would not be suitable for powering aircraft. Combining solar PV, with battery and or fuel cell technology, may one day have potential to offer power management options electric powered aircraft.

Interesting web sites here with some articles about electric powered aircraft development.

http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/engines/178-1.phtml

http://www.kitplanes.com/magazine/engines/176-1.phtml

http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/cate...ial/12874.html

http://envirofuel.com.au/2007/06/20/...r-the-horizon/

http://www.azom.com/news.asp?newsID=6017

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/eece/research/project/858

http://www.asd-network.com/editorial..._Aviation?.htm

[LMagic007]

Anyway getting back on topic, I still think that being able to create fuel from CO2 is a useful development. It's just another tool among many to meet the increasing demands for energy. If it can be proven to be cleaner than simply burning fossil fuels and releasing CO2 into the atmosphere, then it could be viewed as a positive step forward.