Radical Depopulation Of The Earth - The Solution To Mankind's Problems?

[imp]

Originally Posted by wmiddlemas

I was born in the United States and now live in Europe. I have never been denied a basic freedom in either place. I hope that the United States can regain its prestige and former greatness in the coming years.

Good for you! You have never been denied a basic freedom. I have. I have been denied the right to homeschool my children without state interference. I have been denied the right to keep the fruits of my labor because a large percentage of my large income was going to fund government programs that I disagreed with. I have also been indirectly denied the right to free spreech, in that I cannot hear the free speech of those I agree with philosophically. Human Rights Tribunals are now all over Western society and they restrict "offensive" speech (e.g. Mark Steyn, Ezra Levant, Catholic Insight magazine for some Canadian examples). This is all in addition to a host of free speech restrictions related to radio and TV that are present in Western Society, that are not present in the US.

[wmiddlemas]

Well that is debatable. Sweden is supposedly a very efficient government always striving to provid better services at lower costs. Italy is at the other end of the spectrum -- a real basket case.

However, look at the United States government: The Military Budget has doubled under the Bush non- administration while the Army is less ready than it was 8 years ago and no growth in Force Structure. The overall Federal Budget is out control with many agencies unable to perform their basic mandates. So you can't throw stones at the European "Socialist" Governments -- at least their citizens get SOMETHING for their high taxes.

[Richard]

re home schooling. What grounds were given for not allowing you to home school your own children? I'm thinking that if it were allowed, surely some kind of system would have to be in place to ensure that the education recieved was of an adequate standard? What happens if parents opt for home schooling but then make a mess of it, thereby disadvantaging their kids for the rest of their lives? (Not saying you would have done this, but it's a risk nonetheless).

[Richard]

Originally Posted by wmiddlemas

Well that is debatable. Sweden is supposedly a very efficient government always striving to provid better services at lower costs. Italy is at the other end of the spectrum -- a real basket case.

However, look at the United States government: The Military Budget has doubled under the Bush non- administration while the Army is less ready than it was 8 years ago and no growth in Force Structure. The overall Federal Budget is out control with many agencies unable to perform their basic mandates. So you can't throw stones at the European "Socialist" Governments -- at least their citizens get SOMETHING for their high taxes.

The Swedish Governments spend of GDP is approaching 70% though...it's huge! I'm not surprised people get "something" from this as it'd be almost impossible not to given the amount spent. The point is that if taxes were lower and people could choose were to spend their money then Sweden would have a freer and better society.

[August]

Please, do not forget that traditional conservative and liberalist parties are indeed present in the political landscapes of all the Nordic countries. Since the 1980s, parties of the right side of the political spectrum and coalitions of such parties have periodically been in charge of governance in all Nordic countries, and that these parties are taking an active part in the shaping of Nordic societies. As of today, in order to understand Nordic politics, I think it is very important that people consider the concept of State Capitalism: the ideological meeting point of social democracy and market liberalism.

State capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... a social system combining capitalism — the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value — with ownership by a state apparatus.

[Lord Burdock]

Originally Posted by imp

america is the greatest country on earth. The us constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written. It is one of the main reasons that the us is, and will continue to be, the most powerful nation on earth.

America is just "fine". Although i would agree that an obama victory would be a significant blow.

hahahahahahahahahaha!

[August]

Originally Posted by wmiddlemas

That the United States is the greatest country in the world is a myth perpetrated by Americans. It has the most formidable military, but ...

RealClearPolitics - Articles - The Bush Era in Perspective

Whatever damage was done to the United States' reputation by the invasion [of Iraq] itself, the damage done by four years of failure -- including the more spectacular manifestations of that failure, such as the Abu Ghraib prison scandal -- has been incalculably greater. In a fracturing world, the only thing worse than a self-absorbed hegemon is an incompetent self-absorbed hegemon.

It may seem as if the time has come for American intellectuals, politicians, and even ordinary voters (?) to start evaluating the nation's status in the eyes of the world. It's about time that started to happen, I say, but that, of course, is a matter of personal opinion. -

[imp]

Originally Posted by Richard

re home schooling. What grounds were given for not allowing you to home school your own children? I'm thinking that if it were allowed, surely some kind of system would have to be in place to ensure that the education recieved was of an adequate standard? What happens if parents opt for home schooling but then make a mess of it, thereby disadvantaging their kids for the rest of their lives? (Not saying you would have done this, but it's a risk nonetheless).

I could have homeschooled in Canada - if I followed their curriculum. As you know I moved to Texas where there are essentially no rules and I do not have to tell any government official what I am teaching my kids.

So to answer your question directly - no, there is no need for a system to be in place to ensure that the education recieved was of an adequate standard. This makes liberals and leftists very uneasy - they cannot stand not indoctrinating children with their values. Some kids get messed up with homeschooling, but some kids get messed up with public school. The notion that it is better for the state to mess up your kids than a parent is absurd.

There is a reason Texas has grown so much over the past 4 decades, even through the bust cycles in oil - they truly believe in liberty.

[wmiddlemas]

Originally Posted by imp

Good for you! You have never been denied a basic freedom. I have. I have been denied the right to homeschool my children without state interference. I have been denied the right to keep the fruits of my labor because a large percentage of my large income was going to fund government programs that I disagreed with. I have also been indirectly denied the right to free spreech, in that I cannot hear the free speech of those I agree with philosophically. Human Rights Tribunals are now all over Western society and they restrict "offensive" speech (e.g. Mark Steyn, Ezra Levant, Catholic Insight magazine for some Canadian examples). This is all in addition to a host of free speech restrictions related to radio and TV that are present in Western Society, that are not present in the US.

Who says that you can't educate your children ? You can educate your children to your heart's content, but somebody ( in this case the state) has to set a standard - some measure that your homeschooling is meeting some minimum criteria otherwise your children's exemplary homeschooling cannot be formally acknowledged or recognized by the rest of society and would therefore become virtually worthless. You would be denying your children the freedom of achieving economic well being.

Re taxes: If the government doesn't have the right to tax, then are you saying that there should be no government ? There are freedoms everyone gives up for the guaranteed freedoms that the government ensures, freedom of speech, press, security, economic well-being etc. There are many programs that I pay taxes for that I object to, either in scope or basic concept, i.e. militarism, non-secular supported government programs, but I pay nonetheless, because first I must if I am to be a citizen, and secondly, in the case of the United States and most industrialized countries the benefits of government programs outweigh the disadvantages of taxes.

As to high taxes, I refer back to the Scandinavian countries especially Norway and Sweden: no one can say that the Scandinavian people are not free: They have perhaps the greatest liberty, security and protected fundamental rights of anyone on the planet, and yet they pay very high taxes. So much for the low tax = high prosperity; high tax = low prosperity theory.

As far as free speech is concerned: this is not a black and white issue either. I think the American Republican party - the mythical guardian of individual freedoms, are the first to restrict "vulgarity" and thus free speech on American broadcast media if they disagree with it. Hell they have tried to eliminate Public Television for decades because they disagree with the balanced but sometimes reporting of misguided conservative policies; then there are countless instances where public employees have been disciplined for expressing views contrary to government doctrine or simply exposing fraud. Finally, it is scandalous how government scientists have had their documents and free speech altered by government bureaucrats because they express truths that the government deems embarrassing.

No, there are many basic "freedoms" and rights that people think they have in the US but in truth only exist for some. A couple of examples: Right to privacy - that does not exist for sure the Bush Administration made sure of that. Fair and open trials: If you are wealthy, you get a fair trial, if you are poor and charged with a serious crime, it is likely that you are going to jail or worse whether you are guilty or innocent. Right to equal education opportunities: If you live in the inner city, forget it, you will be lucky to pull yourself out of the poverty spiral. If you are wealthy, then you will have access to the best schools in the country and an open invitation to the best universities and a life of leisure and wealth. Look at George Bush ! Right to basic health care: We all know the story on this one.... it doesn't exist for more than 50 million Americans. I could go on, but the list is too long ...

[August]

Originally Posted by wmiddlemas

... I refer back to the Scandinavian countries especially Norway and Sweden: no one can say that the Scandinavian people are not free:

I can.

A Swedish social worker, working and living in little Oslo, Norway, came to inform me, back in 2005: "I'm sorry, but we can't help you. You had better read up on Michel Foucault who once wrote that the system is fascist and works only to protect and preserve itself." - That was, I believe, to say that I was to be seen as some kind of an intruder, and not at all just a simple person finding a hard time figuring out what and how to write in order to become an author of novels, plays, poems and philosophical essays.