Hi from Costa Rica

[prashamk]

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

We are using the plantation trees to bring in a permanent rainforest - so far we are doing very well with the concept. We don't clear land, we buy pasture land and convert it. Since you can't go directly to a mature rainforest, we use the pioneer species of a plantation to get there.

Thats great. Moreover I have 2 points here

1) How about planting a few trees on the borders of land under cultivation. It has 2 benefits. a) It would keep the water table high & b) farmers would water and care for them, so you don't have to visit the areas repeatedly nor you have to appoint someone to take care of those plants.

2) Watering and taking care of plants is a big issue. Utilising waste lands is great but who takes care of plants. It seems to be quite good plan on paper but then this responsibility become huge.

I not blaming you for anything. I am raising these questions as I am currently facing this problem.

Sooner or later I am planning to start a small plantation drive wherein I am willing to sow seeds of local species.

Please enlighten me with your knowledge.

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

One of our challenges is getting seeds for natives - we usually have to harvest them ourselves. Most everyone plants teak and gmelina here, if they plant anything. We have no gmelina, it is an incredibly invasive tree. Teak won't self seed here either - the seeds have to be treated before they will sprout.

You have done good clasification. Keep it up.

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

As you can see, I am a pragmatic environmentalist, not a purest. We are pushing everyone to go to natives as much as possible (and at times Acacia for the base for its ability to help other trees grow) - but I figure using teak to get back to a permanent, native rainforest is a venial sin...

I can write much more if anyone is curious. Part of my desire of being in the forum is education - of me.

Being pure is best. GM is worst and we have received its proof from time to time. Local varieties are the best.

[CRTreeDude]

Okay, see if I can catchup with the answers...

First, we don't have to ever water, we live in a low land tropical rainforest zone - for about 8 months out of the year we live with mud... The dry period doesn't every dry out completely, just makes you long for the rain again...

But, you are correct, you do start have a huge work in progress. Currently we have 55 full-time workers. This is no hobby for sure! And, most likely 80 before the end of the year. This is the other side of the equation. We pay all benefits for all workers - including health care, disability, pension fund, Christmas bonus, vacation. We also help the local schools (we sponser two soccor teams. )

How do we pay for it all? Well, the start up was us. Then people started asking if they could be part of it. Now we have more than 123 tree owners with us - and it continues to grow. Honestly, I didn't start off trying to do this... But, I have an extensive background and business, and though I don't have to work, what else am I going to do with my time, and if I don't, who will?

Regarding planting around cultivated land - we advise local farmers on that and barter seedlings for services (and horses, etc). We have some cattle for between older trees and about 14 horses who work for a living. so we do practice agroforestry.

Regarding GM, I won't use GM at all - no way no how. The reason is simple, reduced genetic material is a very, very bad thing. We even won't use cloning, unless it is the only way to reproduce a tree. All non-natives will be removed from the permanent forest.

Also, the permanent forest will be maintained by guards, who will be paid from trees that have to be removed due to being too old, etc. Also, we will remove trees at times to remove too many of one type - and plant other species. The mandate for the permanent forest is for it to make the decisions on what is best - i.e. whatever improves the forest. But, it also produces enough revenue to pay for guards and to create jobs for the local people. That way they won't destroy what we have built.

[CRTreeDude]

Originally Posted by spadlet

YES!

I spent some time looking at how sustainable wood fuel production could improve the environment and biodiversity in England (just out of personal curiosity, nothing major). I would be especially interested to hear how you manage the wood and how you fund your project. In England some tree spesiec can be infected with finghi which form a symbiotic relationship, similar to the legumes. Is this the same thing as what you're doing?

Has your project been going long enough for your trees to start masting or do you get your seeds from other woodlands?

Sustainable wood fuel production is interesting. We don't need it here (we are the tropics after all) and we have so many limbs and waste from wood process that all our neighbors have all the wood they need for cooking - if they use fire.

Funding started with our money, but then we had many people who wished to have their own trees. It has worked very well for us. They get a return, and their trees provide the money to buy the land and their trees also serve as the nursery for the permanent rainforest. This is because most of the trees of the forest won't grow in a pasture - they have to have competition and shade to grow, many just die if you plant them in a field.

Regarding a symbiotic relationship, you are correct. In the tropics, most trees require a fungus to break down the nutrients, or they cannot access them. For this reason we leave all the good trees we find in the field to preserve this until the plantation trees grow to being larger enough to continue on their own. Many plantations here were planted by first removing all field trees - and because of that, they have fairly poor growth.

Yes, some of our trees are now producing seed - we also have probably 200 acres total of virgin forest for finding seeds. We pay local seed finders as well for seeds.

Did I answer everything?

[macgardener]

Hi. Very interesting to read about what you are doing.

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

Did I answer everything?

I think so . Just to clarify, do you see the initial capital you put int othe project as a financial investment or did it start out more as a hobby?

If I can ask more questions....

Do you germinate the seeds in a 'nursery' and plant out the saplings?

In the areas that are starting to recover, where the trees have started masting, do you have to take many measures to protect natural regeneration?

What sort of effects have you seen on the ecosystems? Have other species (plants & animals) begun to inhabit the areas you have planted without and extra encouragement or are you having to consider some schemes to encourage them?

Do you plant any trees or plants that produce things that are edible (such as nuts)? I don't think that Teak falls into the category, although I'm under the impression that the wood can get a good price as commercial timber.

Are you planning to increase the number of tree species once the land stabilises?

Don't worry if you dont feel like answering, I just think the project sounds really interesting and it's always good to look at how theories work out in practice.

[CRTreeDude]

Originally Posted by spadlet

I think so . Just to clarify, do you see the initial capital you put int othe project as a financial investment or did it start out more as a hobby?

If I can ask more questions....

Do you germinate the seeds in a 'nursery' and plant out the saplings?

In the areas that are starting to recover, where the trees have started masting, do you have to take many measures to protect natural regeneration?

What sort of effects have you seen on the ecosystems? Have other species (plants & animals) begun to inhabit the areas you have planted without and extra encouragement or are you having to consider some schemes to encourage them?

Do you plant any trees or plants that produce things that are edible (such as nuts)? I don't think that Teak falls into the category, although I'm under the impression that the wood can get a good price as commercial timber.

Are you planning to increase the number of tree species once the land stabilises?

Don't worry if you dont feel like answering, I just think the project sounds really interesting and it's always good to look at how theories work out in practice.

No problem with questions. Yes, we start the seedlings in a nursery. There is already a significant increase in wildlife in the plantations. There is a nearly extinct tropical deer in one plantation that is very well established now - we have a small herd. Lots of other wildlife as well. Since we don't allow hunting, a lot of animals have moved in as a refuge. (animals aren't as dumb as people might think...)

Regarding mast, about half of our trees, or more, produce food in as fruits and nuts. For example, we have thousands of almendros, which is a favorite of the Great Green Macaw.

We are always seeking out new species - we start at the edges of the rivers and springs which will never be harvested and these will be large about the time that plantation trees will be removed - so the diversification will move from the protected areas (100% protected - no harvesting for any reason) into the rest of the plantation. Also we encourage papaya, which self seeds here, and all the birds love, among other things. We also leave all fruit trees while preparing to plant, for the animals, and for me when I am walking through the plantations.

[CRTreeDude]

Oh, regarding the original capital. It was an investment more than anything, we were, and still are, expecting return from it. (and have had it return )

If I may speak to the issue a bit. It is my idea that if you have money, it is better to have it used to return more money while in the process of doing good, than to only give it away to something. In that way, the money becomes available again to do something good.

I have nothing against charities, but we aren't. We are business people (my wife and I) who believe that business can be a force for good. Seems to be working pretty well too.

[prashamk]

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

First, we don't have to ever water, we live in a low land tropical rainforest zone - for about 8 months out of the year we live with mud... The dry period doesn't every dry out completely, just makes you long for the rain again...

That's just great. I am very much worried about how will I be able to make sure that the trees I am planning to plant grow well.

Should I keep them in buckets on my terrace untill they gain in size and then transfer them to areas near water bodies like ponds or similar?

[12canrescuer]

El Pope.\
El Dope, is the brunt of the problem in CR as well as ALL Latin counties......
Gimme 15 % a month and all is well..............
Kill steal and lie, but make sure and confess !
Gee. Everywhere with Catholic influence....... contains total CHAOS.
HMMMMMMMMMMMM

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by CRTreeDude

Regarding mast, about half of our trees, or more, produce food in as fruits and nuts. For example, we have thousands of almendros, which is a favorite of the Great Green Macaw.

Do you, or are you planning to, harvest any of the friuts or nuts for human consumption? I'm meaning a more commercial scale than just the odd person that walks through the forest. Or are you going to use them as a food source to subsidise the living costs for your employees in any way?