Tesla Roadster: The World's Only Cool Electric Car

[Windguy]

After seeing this I think the both of you are arguing over nothing. The fact is the electric car can supply the ability to help 90% of the population, whereas petrol would be needed for another 10% of trips. So a garage would be complete with one electric vehicle and one plug in hybrid. And if each household had one 1Kw solar panels, one 5Kw wind generator and one solar hot water system, then that household will nearly hit the carbon neutral level as is, and still save money.

We may not have the ideal storage abilities as yet, but if there was more thinking involved to help map out a decent plan for the future, then we wouldn't need that storage capacity for a very long time and people will still be able to have their decent lifestyle they have now.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Finegood. In post #57 you take issue with my point about posting facts. Taken at face value, the "evidently not" comment indicates that you don't accept that I post facts.
Yet you consistently shy away from citing anything I have claimed as fact that isn't. Won't or can't?

No simply won't be bothered. Simply claiming something as fact in itself isn't assured to be deserving of a response. There are too many posts on this forum to read entirely and so little time in the day to read them. You don't get all the attention I'm afraid.

“Fast charging is here; it’s available,” Boyd said. “You can put a station at a Starbucks for a cost of $125,000. There’s no reason to wait [for something else].”

Greentech Media | Electric-Car Firms Push Alternative to Project Better Place's Idea

Admittedly skepticism was mentioned, but that is largely market operational logistics and appropriate pricing mechanisms and as mentioned, most people will charge overnight at home. The key thing is that the technology exists and is practical.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Windguy

After seeing this I think the both of you are arguing over nothing. The fact is the electric car can supply the ability to help 90% of the population, whereas petrol would be needed for another 10% of trips. So a garage would be complete with one electric vehicle and one plug in hybrid. And if each household had one 1Kw solar panels, one 5Kw wind generator and one solar hot water system, then that household will nearly hit the carbon neutral level as is, and still save money.

We may not have the ideal storage abilities as yet, but if there was more thinking involved to help map out a decent plan for the future, then we wouldn't need that storage capacity for a very long time and people will still be able to have their decent lifestyle they have now.

Yes I agree it seems rather trivial in the scheme of more constructive things that can be discussed. Clearly the electric car is the way forward with hybrid backup either as a second car or rental car. Much is expected to happen over the next few years with GM now on board for a 2010 release of their Chevy Volt, among other hybrid models along with other manufacturers. It's all happening and there's no point anyone denying it. The electric car presents us with huge opportunities to reduce carbon emissions. The challenge will be to also bolster our energy supplies and storage with renewable energy of a very significant scale. I expect the electric car may start to rule by 2020 and emerge as the new family car of choice. We have the technology and there are practical solutions. The imperative and mandate is here and now and the line in the sand has been drawn.

I doubt there will ever be an ideal situation, as the grass is invariably greener over the hill and clearly the implementation schema of fossil fuels has never been ideal, but rather far from ideal. We have built modern societies on this fallacy that we can pollute without cost and that's coming back to haunt the world. In fact, by not appropriately costing carbon emissions and other environmental pollutants into the product, we have left ourselves in a precarious position. If it's not one thing it will likely be another that causes man to seek new ways of tackling new problems. It's the very reason for this kind of discussion today across the world. We have to go with what we have and what we have, as you indicate, is sufficient for us to make a significant difference and provide a much healthier and sustainable and thus more secure lifestyle for all.

[Windguy]

Funnily enough I just watched "Who killed the electric car" today on Foxtel. The electric car may have been an expensive exercise, I don't know, but what I didn't like was the fact they took all the cars away and destroyed them without any chance of anybody buying or keeping them even just for keepsake. There is a very bad obviousness with oil companies we can see right now, but funnily enough by GM not being green they have really hurt themselves now. And the pain is going to last a long time.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

No simply won't be bothered.

OK. In post #57 on the question of my posting of facts you were sufficiently bothered to say "evidently not".
Now, unless you were being totally ingenuous, one might reasonably conclude that that your "evidently not" was based on evidence that you had seen that what I posted was NOT fact.
And now you can't be bothered to support that.
I think we both know where we stand.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

OK. In post #57 on the question of my posting of facts you were sufficiently bothered to say "evidently not".

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Now, unless you were being totally ingenuous, one might reasonably conclude that that your "evidently not" was based on evidence that you had seen that what I posted was NOT fact. And now you can't be bothered to support that. I think we both know where we stand.

I really can't be bothered to waste further time on this futile discussion of such pettiness, that continues up to this moment. I have seen enough evidence to see how you use facts, however it's blindingly clear to all and sundry, that you have shown tendency here to use facts to create a misleading impression, simply to score a point. The EEStor / EESU issue is a classic example of you using the statements in the article in such a way as to unreasonably show incredibility, punctuated by your

Originally Posted by Besoeker

"Silly, isn't it?"

remark to show in terms of incredulous reasoning an obvious scenario born to fail, which I have demonstrated in my pervious post

Originally Posted by LMagic007

here ...

The article being referenced in this thread on EEStor here;
http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/energy/2006/01/eestor_ultracap.html

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Please feel free to correct me on any false information I have given on any point in any thread.

I have indeed remarked your use and representation of information and the intent of such use and what I consider to be the abuse of facts in the absence of complete information and your combination of the both thus yourself building an incredulous argument. Namely the Frazer domain article "EEStor Ultracapacitor Shuns Publicity" itself makes no mention of 220V or any other voltage rating, so on that basis the notion of charging in minutes itself can't reasonably be shown to be silly as you have suggested, except for the scenario you presented, which is a scenario that the article does NOT present. It's well evident you tried in vain to make the article's "charge in minutes" statement look silly, by including information in representation of facts, that was not stated in the article and equally evident that you failed. Your method of argument was flawed and this can be clearly seen by all and this raises the question of credibility of your own remarks, just as you have inferred lack of credibility of the article.

It's there for all to see, warts and all. I value my time more highly than that, simple as that. Any fool can post facts, however it's how facts are used in combination with uncertainties that defines the integrity of an argument. By all means continue along your merry path, but don't expect those that have better things to do with their time, to be part of the charade.

“Fast charging is here; it’s available,” Boyd said. “You can put a station at a Starbucks for a cost of $125,000. There’s no reason to wait [for something else].”

Greentech Media | Electric-Car Firms Push Alternative to Project Better Place's Idea

Admittedly skepticism was mentioned, but that is largely market operational logistics and appropriate pricing mechanisms and as mentioned, most people will charge overnight at home. The key thing is that the technology exists and is practical.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

I really can't be bothered to waste further time on this futile discussion

But you did.
Yet, despite your ramblings, and your post #57, you still have not cited anything that I claimed as fact that isn't.
If, as you claim, I evidently don't stick to facts, that's getting a bit close to claiming that I post stuff that is the opposite of truth.
As I said, I think we both know where we stand.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

[/font][/size]
But you did.[/font][/size]Yet, despite your ramblings, and your post #57, you still have not cited anything that I claimed as fact that isn't.
If, as you claim, I evidently don't stick to facts, that's getting a bit close to claiming that I post stuff that is the opposite of truth.
As I said, I think we both know where we stand.

Yet, despite your ramblings you still have not proven anything you claim as fact, to actually be fact. Posting fact is one thing, mixing fact and fiction is another and using fact and fiction to spin a given view point is a culmination of that.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Yet, despite your ramblings you still have not proven anything you claim as fact, .

I was addressing your "evidently not" comment in response to my post that I prefer to stick to facts.
You are claiming that I don't stick to facts.
So, I still invite you to cite anything that I claimed as fact that isn't.
If you can do so.
If you can't, drop the subject.
Either is fine with me.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

I was addressing your "evidently not" comment in response to my post that I prefer to stick to facts.
You are claiming that I don't stick to facts. So, I still invite you to cite anything that I claimed as fact that isn't. If you can do so. If you can't, drop the subject. Either is fine with me.

I have already demonstrated an example with EEStor where you have mixed fact with your deliberately superimposed 220V figure to suggest how silly the notion of the articles statement of "charge in minutes as opposed to hours" was, even though the article makes absolutely no reference to 220V domestic charging, when it makes the statement about charging in minutes. Anyone can see through your explanations and the more you explain the more silly your explanations become. You have shown your slight of hand.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

"Silly, isn't it?"

EEStor Ultracapacitor Shuns Publicity
The Energy Blog: EEStor Ultracapacitor Shuns Publicity

“Fast charging is here; it’s available,” Boyd said. “You can put a station at a Starbucks for a cost of $125,000. There’s no reason to wait [for something else].”

Greentech Media | Electric-Car Firms Push Alternative to Project Better Place's Idea

Admittedly skepticism was mentioned, but that is largely market operational logistics and appropriate pricing mechanisms and as mentioned, most people will charge overnight at home. The key thing is that the technology exists and is practical.