New Device Turns Waste Heat into Electricity

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

It's my opinion that it's a fact, that good use can be made of waste Internal Combustion engine heat in motor vehicles. i.e. it's my opinion that it's a fact that it is possible, rather than a fact that it is not possible.

Fine.
It's your opinion that it's possible.
But, unless you know that it's possible, you cannot logically claim, with certainty, that it is possible.
And that's what you did.

As I suggested earlier, do the number crunching and you might then begin to understand the scale of the challenge.
Do that and it might just modify your take on the certainty you have expressed.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Fine. It's your opinion that it's possible. But, unless you know that it's possible, you cannot logically claim, with certainty, that it is possible. And that's what you did.

I believe it's possible and I know its possible, even though I have not shown so. I don't need to. It's my opinion. I have far greater confidence with using waste motor vehicle engine heat though, as its not technically new ground. It's more just new ways of using what we already know and have ( considerable waste IC engine heat ) and technology we can apply at a given cost.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

As I suggested earlier, do the number crunching and you might then begin to understand the scale of the challenge. Do that and it might just modify your take on the certainty you have expressed.

Not at all. The numbers are well appreciated by those researching in the field and that's why they are working in the field of researching this because, it's clear the waste motor vehicle engine heat is there and they have confidence it can be put to good use.

It's not so much a technical limitation, but more a cost one. i.e. is it worth spending the money on installing devices that capture heat and help improve overall motor vehicle efficiency. Many of the major problems we face today are cost impeded, although technical performance obviously impacts on cost. i.e in many instances we have the knowledge, but is it affordable or cost effective ? With rising fuel prices however, the cost dynamics are changing, making these ideas more attractive. As we evolve motor vehicle technology base through hybrid to electric, I have no doubt that waste engine heat capture will increase in significance and relevance.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

I believe it's possible and I know its possible, even though I have not shown so. I don't need to. It's my opinion.

Of course it's your opinion. If you know it's possible it would't be opinion.

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Not at all. The numbers are well appreciated by those researching in the field

If you did the number crunching yourself, then you would have a better appreciation of what you are claiming with certainty can be done. That's why I suggested that you do so.

Originally Posted by LMagic007

It's not so much a technical limitation, but more a cost one. i.e. is it worth spending the money on installing devices that capture heat and help improve overall motor vehicle efficiency.

I think it is very much a technical limitation.
If you do the calculations you might just appreciate that.

A better approach is to work on reducing waste heat in the first place while still maintaining the autonomy that current vehicle technology affords.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

If you did the number crunching yourself, then you would have a better appreciation of what you are claiming with certainty can be done. That's why I suggested that you do so.

No I don't need to because as you say, it's just an opinion all be it a firm opinion. The fact that industry is investing time and money in this area, suggests there is a belief it's a worth while pursuit. Crunching numbers to prove what we already know about fundamentals, is one thing, but crunching numbers on the right problems in applying the right paradigms is another and I suspect that's what's appealing to researchers.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

I think it is very much a technical limitation. If you do the calculations you might just appreciate that. A better approach is to work on reducing waste heat in the first place while still maintaining the autonomy that current vehicle technology affords.

Of course there are always some technical limitations, that's a given, but conceptually it's not a difficult problem. Reducing heat production is ok, but that is limited in itself. Regarding motor vehile technology that utilizes internal combustion engines, I suspect there is more heat energy wasted that could be captured, than there is heat that can be avoided. Thus I would question whether focusing on reducing heat production would be worth while. Just focusing on calculations to prove a square peg don't fit in a round hole further shows the limitation of thinking inside the square. Improvements sometimes break conventional design paradigms by utilising what is known, but in a different way. That appears to be where much of the current research is focused and as I indicated, they would not be doing it if they did not believe it had merit, so either the researchers are very stupid and wasting their time or you are very pessimistic about it being achievable, which by the way is clearly evident.

The wheel doesn't stand still, it keeps turning.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

No I don't need to because as you say, it's just an opinion all be it a firm opinion. The fact that industry is investing time and money in this area, suggests there is a belief it's a worth while pursuit. Crunching numbers to prove what we already know about fundamentals, is one thing, but crunching numbers on the right problems in applying the right paradigms is another and I suspect that's what's appealing to researchers.



Of course there are always some technical limitations, that's a given, but conceptually it's not a difficult problem. Reducing heat production is ok, but that is limited in itself. Regarding motor vehile technology that utilizes internal combustion engines, I suspect there is more heat energy wasted that could be captured, than there is heat that can be avoided. Thus I would question whether focusing on reducing heat production would be worth while. Just focusing on calculations to prove a square peg don't fit in a round hole further shows the limitation of thinking inside the square. Improvements sometimes break conventional design paradigms by utilising what is known, but in a different way. That appears to be where much of the current research is focused and as I indicated, they would not be doing it if they did not believe it had merit, so either the researchers are very stupid and wasting their time or you are very pessimistic about it being achievable, which by the way is clearly evident.

The wheel doesn't stand still, it keeps turning.

Vague expections don't produce solutions.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Vague expections don't produce solutions.

But researchers do and that's what they are doing.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

But researchers do and that's what they are doing.

And maybe those working on capturing waste heat from vehicle engines will make something of it. And maybe not.

For every new idea that flies, there are hundreds that don't.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

And maybe those working on capturing waste heat from vehicle engines will make something of it. And maybe not.

For every new idea that flies, there are hundreds that don't.

And I have no doubt they will make something useful of it, otherwise will may as well go live in caves.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

And I have no doubt they will make something useful of it, otherwise will may as well go live in caves.

You can't extrapolate the possible failure of one line of research into the certain failure of all lines of research.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

You can't extrapolate the possible failure of one line of research into the certain failure of all lines of research.

I have no doubt researchers will be successful in effectively utilising waste heat from motor vehicle internal combustion engines to improve overall vehicle energy efficiency.