New Device Turns Waste Heat into Electricity

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Not real world? Didn't you read post #101? The figures I gave are for the car I currently drive.

Yes but your example does not negate the fact that research and development is widely being conducted by major motor vehicle manufacturers and government agencies on utilisation of waste internal combustion engine heat to help improve the overall efficiency of motor vehicles. That's a clear sign that in their opinion it's a worth while pursuit. I happen to agree that their work is worth while and I happen to believe they will be successful. As I mentioned before basic principles are one thing, but real world application is another. Technologies that were not viable years ago, are becoming more viable today. As I said, in the commercial world to which most technology translates, cost / benefit is the driving force.

Man has the technical knowledge to apply various methods of waste energy recovery methodologies, but the cost / benefit aspect is a dynamic one, effected by costs of various approaches relative to alternatives in combination with the cost of energy itself. These factors critically influence the uptake or otherwise of certain technologies. A classic example is hybrid vehicle technology which is now ripe for the picking, yet the basic technology and know how has been around for decades, but the cost of oil, tied in with global demand and growth has historically been low enough for this technology to be placed on the back burner for decades. Obviously also the technology has advanced.

Now however the hybrid motor vehicle is emerging as an industry set to boom in the years ahead, with major announcements by major manufacturers of real time scales of implementation for wide scale production of hybrid vehicles. Some of these same manufacturers that are making huge financial losses with their traditional lines of gas guzzling motor vehicles.

It's the dynamics of convergence of a range of factors and not just the basic principals, that influence the viability of wide scale uptake of technology. Vehicle manufacturers fight for every worth while percentage gain in overall performance and efficiency against cost, to help maintain their competitiveness in the market. Thus one can apply basic principals, but beyond that there are other key factors that influence technology outcomes. It's quite evident that within the scope of basic principals there is a belief by industry that the potential operational efficiency gains from waste Internal Combustion Engine heat recovery in motor vehicles are worth pursuing, otherwise the major players simply would not be wasting their time. As indicated, I do not for a moment doubt they will be successful.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

Yes

Glad that you now accept that it is a real world example.

Originally Posted by LMagic007

but your example does not negate the fact that research and development is widely being conducted by major motor vehicle manufacturers and government agencies on utilisation of waste internal combustion engine heat

Quite right. Research is being undertaken.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Glad that you now accept that it is a real world example.

That appears to be an assumption, as I don't think I said it was a real world example, you did. Yes I did see your example though, so its duly noted.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Quite right. Research is being undertaken.

Indeed, Research and Development is being undertaken to harness waste Internal Combustion Engine heat and divert if for useful purposes that help improve overall motor vehicle efficiency. The notion has moved beyond mere theory. The technology is being developed and in time I expect it will emerge in vehicles. You may think otherwise and that's fine.

[Besoeker]

Originally Posted by LMagic007

That appears to be an assumption, as I don't think I said it was a real world example, you did.

It is a reasonable inference from your post #121 that you accept that it is a real world example. Besides, it would be perverse not to, despite your previous contention to the contrary in post #116.
I posted the figures for a reason. It was to try to give scale, context and constraints.
You can't do that without numbers.
Look again, and you might see what I'm getting at. As I posted some time ago, sourcing the waste heat isn't a problem. Sinking it is a constraint.

Originally Posted by LMagic007

The technology is being developed and in time I expect it will emerge in vehicles. You may think otherwise and that's fine.

Yes, you may expect that it might. But you can't, or shouldn't, reasonably claim to know with certainty that it will.
I think it might if the extra kit is inexpensive and results in reduced fuel consumption can provide an acceptable payback short term.

[LMagic007]

Originally Posted by Besoeker

It is a reasonable inference from your post #121 that you accept that it is a real world example. Besides, it would be perverse not to, despite your previous contention to the contrary in post #116.

Just because one does not disagree, does not automatically imply they agree and it would be negligently tractable to do so, solely on that basis.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

I posted the figures for a reason. It was to try to give scale, context and constraints. You can't do that without numbers. Look again, and you might see what I'm getting at. As I posted some time ago, sourcing the waste heat isn't a problem. Sinking it is a constraint.

Even if that's so, it does not change the fact that R & D is happening in this area and that a clear belief exists in industry professionals that waste Internal Combustion Engine heat can be utilized to help improve the overall efficiency of motor vehicles. It's clear that despite your figures and what you intend them to represent, their is a view held out there by people working in this field, that this is a worth while pursuit. Further more, all indication is that they will be successful. It's only a matter of time. In fact its more a matter of cost dynamics as they already know how to apply such technologies, but until all the cost dynamics sufficiently converge, which by all indication they are converging and will continue to do so, wide scale commercial implementation will be limited. Thus I have full confidence that they will successfully implement this type of technology before very long, given the cost projections of oil and technological improvents and cost reductions.

Originally Posted by Besoeker

Yes, you may expect that it might. But you can't, or shouldn't, reasonably claim to know with certainty that it will.

I hold no doubt that researchers and developers will be successful in utilising waste heat to help improve overall efficiency of motor vehicles. I can claim this because for one, it's already occurred. As I have painstakingly indicated on several occasions, the driving factor of technology uptake is cost dynamics. The cost of energy ( oil ) being a key factor, along with other factors such as cheaper materials and better designs that help lower dollar cost of volume production and operation. This will be the deciding factor as to whether such technologies prove their worth. But the technologies themselves exist and have been shown to work and help improve motor vehicle efficiency. I have no doubt about that at all. None whatsoever.