Off the Grid; Clean Energy Independence

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by forfismum

i can't see that it would be reasonable to have to open and close curtains,blinds or windows to suit the intermittent nature of this beast.

I said that SOME PEOPLE decide it is reasonable. I'm not aware of any cases where people have been forced to endure flicker against there will. The only case I can think of was in Kirklees where the council errected 3 (the larger end of micro sized) wind turbines on a roof of a council building, in an urban area, close to a major road (but the turbines were too small to fall onto anything other than the roof they were pmounted on). On occasion the light reflected of a building (or something similar) and caused filcker in an office around the corner. As it was not within a direct line of sight this effect had been unforseen. The matter was reported and investigated. The times that the flicker would occur were easily predictable and the office workers decided that they were happy to close the blinds during these periods. As far as I am aware they could have taken the matter further if they had wanted to. The errection of the wind turbines was a trial and they were a type that can easily be removed (unlike the 2MW sized devices).

The intermitancy of flicker isn't due to intermitent operation of wind turbines, It's due to the movement of the Earth relative to the sun and the rotation of the earth about it's axis. You can't get flicker at night because there's no sun to reflect off the blades. Flicker only occurs when the wind turbine is in the path that the rays travel from the sun to the viewer, kind of like when the moon causes a solar eclipse. Models of the sun's 'path' across the sky are reliable enough to predict the probability of such occurances.

Also I was under the impression that epilepsy was causes by lights flashing at certain high frequencies. It is possible to control the rotational frequencies of the large commecrical wind turbines just as they can prevent them rotating in any windspeeds that are found to exceed acceptable noise limits during operation. I'm not aware of anybody in the UK deliberately ignoring a potential flicker issue once it has been identified. I'd certainly be interested to see any evidence you can find to the contrary.

If you have had a look at the site, how far away is the wind turbine from the property? How tall is the wind turbine? What are your impressions of the noise that it emits?

Have you checked with the local planning department to see if they have planning permission?

[William Djubin]

DEP is so concerned for it US Florida citizens that it granted FPL Big $$$$ for a wind farm, no individuals received a Grant, just Big Energy companies. What gives??

Excerpt from DEP Web-
Florida Power and Light, “St. Lucie Wind” ($2,500,000)
This project will construct the first wind energy facility in Florida. As proposed, nine wind turbine generation units would be placed in St. Lucie County and are expected to have the potential capacity of 20 megawatts of electrical power.

[forfismum]

Originally Posted by spadlet

You can't get flicker at night because there's no sun to reflect off the blades.

beep beep.I was standing on the roadway when taking the piccies,there is a road in front of the tall house behind the mill and a 5 cross junction about 200m to the left of where I stood.Think of headlights.Look at the trees and imagine that in a breeze that the mill just might actually work if even for a short time and that the sun will dapple its lovely flickering light through the trees,a most welcome sight unless its distorted and mangled by that darned piece of ironmongery

[forfismum]

Have you checked with the local planning department to see if they have planning permission?

As I do not have a "material interest" in the site i would have to pay some 200 euro to do a check. But this sort of eyesore gets nodded through the process as the councils all want to show their green credentials

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by forfismum

As I do not have a "material interest" in the site i would have to pay some 200 euro to do a check. But this sort of eyesore gets nodded through the process as the councils all want to show their green credentials

Really? They've started putting all applications on the internet, where you can search for free here. It sounds like things work very differently where you live. Dont they even have to notify all of the local ocupants and have public notification of applications with a time period for people to complain? I got a letter through my door notifying me of work to a bridge just down the road, even though it seemed like essential engineering works.

People might thingk that councils are biased when making the final decisions over aplications but that have to publicise the process and give people a chance to have their say.

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by William Djubin

DEP is so concerned for it US Florida citizens that it granted FPL Big $$$$ for a wind farm, no individuals received a Grant, just Big Energy companies. What gives??

Excerpt from DEP Web-
Florida Power and Light, “St. Lucie Wind” ($2,500,000)
This project will construct the first wind energy facility in Florida. As proposed, nine wind turbine generation units would be placed in St. Lucie County and are expected to have the potential capacity of 20 megawatts of electrical power.

Have people not campaigned for microgeneration grants in the USA? Wind farms are money intensive projects. They cost at least £1million per MW installed capacity. A couple of possibilities for community ownership in the UK are setting up a cooperative or a joint venture between a community group (which can be set up specifically for the purpose) and a wind farm developer. Research by TLT Solicitors for the Renewables Advisory board and then DTI suggest that both options are potentially 'bankable'. The actual report is here http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file38707.pdf

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by forfismum

beep beep.I was standing on the roadway when taking the piccies,there is a road in front of the tall house behind the mill and a 5 cross junction about 200m to the left of where I stood.Think of headlights.Look at the trees and imagine that in a breeze that the mill just might actually work if even for a short time and that the sun will dapple its lovely flickering light through the trees,a most welcome sight unless its distorted and mangled by that darned piece of ironmongery

Is that actually 'flicker' though?

[forfismum]

Originally Posted by spadlet

Is that actually 'flicker' though?

Strobe.

[forfismum]

Spadlet,you misled me.I thought that the councils in the UK would never do any wrong or try to pull fast ones on an innocent public

Plans go in for first eco-town – and there's no green to be seen - Telegraph

[spadlet]

Originally Posted by forfismum

Spadlet,you misled me.I thought that the councils in the UK would never do any wrong or try to pull fast ones on an innocent public

Plans go in for first eco-town – and there's no green to be seen - Telegraph

Nah, I siad they had to be open and honest about screwing us over. The whole zero carbon house thing seems to be living up to the scepticism of eco bling and people not seeing the wood for the trees. I'm erring increasingly to the side of those wanting targets for low carbon homes, encouraging the incoporation of emissions and energy saving features such as intelligent passive solar design, high quality insulation, inbuilt ecconomic technologies (e.g. grey water harvesting for watering plant even if it isn't ecconomic to use it to flush the toilet. I'd like to see Richard prove that installing a basic water but is uneconomic ), use of building materials sources in the UK if not locally etc. NOT a fancy wee wind turbine stuck on what's essentially a Barrat home and significantly increasing the price tag. I think I have had this rant before