------ THE SKY IS FALLING ------

[Windguy]

You speak about how powerful you are, but what is your basis of comparison? Give some real examples of what you mean, backed by clear and reliable analytical techniques, not fantasies or fiction. You apparently believe what you are told. Can you even locate Mexico or Canada on a map? If so you are in a small minority of your fellow citizens.

This is what you wrote Karl, so I've got to paste this -

YouTube - Chasers : War on Everything -Americans

Sorry

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Paradox

Hi Karl,

If not the US, who will take the leadership role globally? You are a fool. The US may be arbitrarily being pressed into submission, but it will never submit.

You are off. If being confrontational about the situation is inevitable I hope you have a powerful military. Do you?

Poor nations and those dependent on tourism will be the first to fall.

Paradox, what is the point of criticizing things that you clearly don't understand?

Leadership role globally? That Sci Fi fantasy illusion of yours is totally irrelevant to this website. In case you did not notice, this is an environmental forum.

And one thing is clear -- whatever you imagine your country to be leading, matters pertaining to the ENVIRONMENT are not among those.

The US ranks at the bottom of all surveys related to the environment. It is well known that you have a lot of "catching up" to do, if you want to reach the level of the rest of the word, in that regard. Even Bangladesh, with its overpopulation issues, ranks much higher than the US regarding the environment.

Your global standing on environmental matters is even lower than your rankings in this ....

The EPA, USFWS, USGS, NOAA, LEED etc. staff are wasting their time trying to improve things when they're up against your general public, as well as, the corruption and intimidation faced by employees of your environmental agencies if they attempt to use their scientific knowledge for honest reporting ...> Environmental scientists report political interference

So, rather than demonstrating your lack of understanding, and instead of addressing any "corrections" to your ignorance with those inane threats of nuclear bombs, you would do very well to educate yourself. Start by googling the word "ENTROPY".

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Windguy

This is what you wrote Karl, so I've got to paste this -

YouTube - Chasers : War on Everything -Americans

Sorry

That video is extremely biased -- they edited out the 2-3 out of every 1000 who knew the correct answers.

But seriously, if "knowledge is power" -- they must be in one of the most powerless places on this planet.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Robert Northup

I have not had time to look at this site for a while, and I won't until after we've succeeded at getting Obama elected by a FREAKING LANDSLIDE!

....

I'm loving the idea that the US will get its first black liberal democrat president by a LANDSLIDE.

Good luck to all!

He will probably need to win by a landslide to be assured of the presidency, considering that Al Gore actually won the election that put GWB in the Whitehouse...

[Paradox]

Karl,

We happen to live in an era where the climate is in an unusually chaotic state. There are some parallels between our climate and our economy which are undeniable. I was not threatening anything BTW, simply pointing out that when push comes to shove military might does play a role in things. You obviously have resentments towards the US and I share your dissatisfaction (although probably for different reasons). It is my country though and I feel compelled to defend it when someone makes such generalized insulting remarks about it and its citizens, as you did.

Environmentally, it seems that we are making progress -- Solar seems to be the big craze, hybrids and small vehicles are replacing SUV's at an unprecedented rate, our corporations are going green and individuals seem to be embracing the green ideology and doing their part (incandescent bulbs, recycling etc. etc.). Even oil Tycoon P. Boone Pickens is leading the charge for wind technology and the use of natural gas to reduce our reliance on foreign oil with cleaner energy. So while we may rank poorly in these areas I doubt this will be the case for long...momentum seems to be building.

As for our future, I believe we will be lucky to avoid a brutal depression. I will be surprised if everyone else is not dragged into it as well. As far as reliance on foreign oil and gas, that will change at some point and we will tap our massive reserves.

Your country has been used, abused and now discarded. Whatever you think you had was long given away to "outsourcing". The rest is subsidies from others who can now pull the plug on you any time they want.

Your country on a whole is no more powerful than your illiterate in-bred trailer park inhabitants. Go and study them closely -- they may very well be your future.

Powerful words there Karl. Used, abused and discarded... ouch. You need to take a chill pill, especially if you stand to profit from this debacle - like a vulture circling a wounded animal you are:

That is how I can (and will) personally profit from your predicament (and your requirement to be more green). You saw the crash 15 years ago; well so did I, and maybe I was patiently waiting for it...

To each his own. I have been doing a great deal of research into the great depression to find out how to prepare and which businesses thrived in that era. As for who and what controls our economy, in 1988 Reagan created the President's Working Group on Financial Markets (PPT - Plunge Protection Team), Clinton later repealed the Glass-Steagall act and passed the Commodities Futures Modernization Act...(both moves resulted in massive deregulation of banking) this allowed for the creation of 'credit default swaps' which are an unregulated form of insurance (insuring debt). The PPT controls the economy in a direct manner but the regulatory changes made by Clinton paved the way for the sub-prime crisis, the credit crisis, and the 'coming soon' credit-default-swap 70-trillion-dollar-oh-shit-what-have-we-done-crisis. The housing mess is minor by comparison, the carnage being witnessed is from the early stages of the CDS meltdown. AIG was a provider of this debt insurance.

I know you have a different answer for who runs our economy, you didn't really elaborate. I am interested to hear your viewpoint. There are so many variables that pinpointing one is difficult, my comments above pinpoint one key player and a couple of legislative measures which I believe were instrumental in the creation of this event.

I imagine that a great depression would be a big win for the environment, if the reduction in fuel consumption lately is any indication.

[Karl]

As a simple example, some recent developments -- "Iceland going bankrupt" ... followed by "Russia bails out Iceland". Whether anybody likes this or not isn't it a logical sequence (and a sign of things to come)?

> Iceland Going Bankrupt? :: The Market Oracle :: Financial Markets Analysis & Forecasting Free Website

> FT.com / In depth - Iceland forced to seek Russian capital injection

Iceland expressed disappointment on Tuesday that western allies had failed to provide support to help ease the country’s financial crisis, forcing it to turn to Russia for a €4bn loan.

“We have not received the kind of support that we were requesting from our friends,” said Geir Haarde, prime minister. “So in a situation like that one has to look for new friends.”

In spite of the new friendship, Mr Haarde said it did not extend to military co-operation, refuting the suggestion that Russia might be given access to an airbase vacated by the US air force in 2006.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by Karl

As a simple example, some recent developments -- "Iceland going bankrupt" ... followed by "Russia bails out Iceland". Whether anybody likes this or not isn't it a logical sequence (and a sign of things to come)?

Karl,

It is about time other countries pony up. Uncle US is tapped out at the moment, we've sent our jobs abroad and are going cold-turkey from the credit provided by China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Germany (provided so that we could buy their goods and services).

If you are implying that these other countries control our economy you are only partially correct. They have the ability to sell their holdings of our treasuries therefore destroying the dollar and our economy in the process but I don't see that happening anytime soon. They would lose big-time if such a run occurred. Time will tell but as we saw with Lehman Brothers, everything and everybody is interconnected nowadays. All countries have a stake in this and today we saw them act, this is way bigger than the US and a measly 3 Trillion isn't going to buy much time, but it will help.

[Wayne Stollings]

Hmmm almost better than the old "it is just a theory" attack with which I am so familiar, but that is not saying much.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Paradox

You obviously have resentments towards the US...

Actually, no. I am not making up any of this. Almost everything I said (and much worse), was previously said by many others in various places. There is no reason for me to have personal resentment to the US. And none whatsoever to the Pacific NW. They have always generally seemed to be more "green" and environmentally conscious, and are much more likely to do the "right thing" even if it alienates or sets them apart from the mass of their own country.

Originally Posted by Paradox

Even oil Tycoon P. Boone Pickens is leading the charge for wind technology and the use of natural gas to reduce our reliance on foreign oil with cleaner energy.

That's along the same lines as BP (of the UK) talking about solar reasearch and going "beyond petroleum"

Originally Posted by Paradox

I know you have a different answer for who runs our economy, you didn't really elaborate. I am interested to hear your viewpoint.

Run a google search for "who really runs the US economy". The "theories" will range from: credible to semi-coherent to paranoid to paranormal. After all, some people genuinely believe that the present situation/technological/economic mess started on some farm in Roswell NM in 1947

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by Karl

Run a google search for "who really runs the US economy". The "theories" will range from: credible to semi-coherent to paranoid to paranormal. After all, some people genuinely believe that the present situation/technological/economic mess started on some farm in Roswell NM in 1947

Karl,

You can do better than that. You are the one that was raving about how ignorant I am... I at least answered your question in my own words. To be honest, The Fed is the primary market (economy) manipulator. They are the reason we cannot call ourselves a 'free market' system -- but that is old news. They work in concert with the PPT in any case. At the end of the day, it's the work and economic health of our population which steers the economy. Currently we are on life support....