Marcus predicts 10 degree temperature change

[MassDebation.com]

"I predict that due to the loss of these atmospheric whirlpools, the average temperature on Jupiter will change by as much as 10 degrees Celsius, getting warmer near the equator and cooler at the poles," says Marcus. "This global shift in temperature will cause the jet streams to become unstable and thereby spawn new vortices. It's an event that even backyard astronomers will be able to witness."

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Voyagers? Galileo? Cassini? How are we affecting these changes?

[Richard]

Who's suggesting that we are having any effect on it?

[reality]

Jupiter is an enormous planet. The mere suggestion that our space exploration is affecting their climate is absurd!

[natterjack]

I assume that the point of this is: "Changes happen on other planets where we clearly have had no impact, hence any changes that happen on Earth are not due to our actions."

However...

1. In this particular article the researchers seem pretty confident that this change is part of a fairly regular approx. 50 year cycle.

2. To suppose that this article is worth quoting at all, we presumable accept that the climate modelling that had lead them to this conclusion for Jupiter was valid.

3. I wouldn't mind betting that much the same medels that lead them to this conclusion are similar to those which are used in modelling Earth's climate.

4. The overwhelming majority of researchers using these models for Earth's climate seem to conclude that we are having an impact here, based on those models.

[MassDebation.com]

Originally Posted by natterjack

I assume that the point of this is: "Changes happen on other planets where we clearly have had no impact, hence any changes that happen on Earth are not due to our actions..."

Not quite, but perhaps something like this: Changes happen on other planets without us, thus it is possible for changes to happen on earth without us too."

I doubt Environmentalists would even agree to that. It seems to me that their thinking is that all change is due to us, and without us there would and could be no change.

Certainly the fact that we exist changes the dynamics, even the dynamics of the entire universe, however infinitismally small that change may or may not be.

But to show our influence upon a system and then conclude that we are the only and supreme influencing factor is going a bit too far.
Ice caps on Mars are melting too, but we are clearly not influencing this to any reasonable degree. Hence their exists the possibility that if we were'nt here, our ice caps might also still be melting nevertheless - even without our influence.

So my question becomes: Is it possible for a planet's ice-caps (including that of the earth) to melt without our influence?
If the answer is no, then it follows that we must be the direct cause of Mars' ice-caps melting too. Not so?

[natterjack]

Why bother with going to other planets?

Of course the climate has changes without us throughout the geological history of Earth. I don't know of anyone who disputes that.

Now, who is it who

conclude[s] that we are the only and supreme influencing factor

?

I don't know anyone who is claims that, either.

I refer you to my point 4 above however.

[Zoltan Paul Jambor]

The Earth has it's historic climate cycles as far as we can go back in history, as shown by evidence gathered from ice cores drilled in the Antarctic. While Jupiter has it's cycles of 50 years, the Earth has it's cycles of 100,000 years. Roughly 90,000 years of ice age followed by 10,000 years of a warm peiod. The Earth has much longer cycles than Jupiter, as our planet is covered by vast bodies of water that act as buffers to temperature change. Temperature changes thus are much slower here on Earth.

We are now at the end of the 10,000 year warm peiod, yet temperatures keep on rising instead of cooling. What's up with that? Clearly the climate is not behaving as normal, here on Earh, at this stage. Clearly, something is out of wack. The most likely cause of these unusual temperature variations are; human emitted CO2, logging and desetrification due to poor farming techniques. The natural cycles would only cool the earth, according to historical references, therefore something unusual is definitely at play here. The rate of temperature change is simply out of the ordinary. Changes have occurred in the past, as shown by evidence, however, there is no record of such drastic temperature changes, as we are witnessing today.

Sorry people, but comparing Jupiter's athospheric cycles to that of Earth, simply adds to the already piled up evidence; that humans are to blame for Global Warming here on Earth.

ZPJ

[MassDebation.com]

Originally Posted by natterjack

Why bother with going to other planets?

Of course the climate has changes without us throughout the geological history of Earth. I don't know of anyone who disputes that.

Now, who is it who

?

I don't know anyone who is claims that, either.

I refer you to my point 4 above however.

Natterjack, meet ZPJ... "...that humans are to blame for Global Warming here on Earth." (above post)

Point 4 taken... and Newtonian Mechanics rulz... and the Earth was flat because so many people of the day said so... and butter is bad for you... etc.

Would be fascinated to see a list of current changes happenning in our solar system!