Evidence(The worst to come due to Climate Change)is mounting

[Richard]

I'm not insulting you - I'm suggesting that you are being too optimistic about mankind's response to climate change.

Alternative energy is a noble pursuit but I just don't think we can switch to alternatives in a big enough way to make any real difference and it's currently still cheaper to rely mainly on fossil fuels.

[Zoltan Paul Jambor]

Originally Posted by TheRobster

I'm not insulting you - I'm suggesting that you are being too optimistic about mankind's response to climate change.

Alternative energy is a noble pursuit but I just don't think we can switch to alternatives in a big enough way to make any real difference and it's currently still cheaper to rely mainly on fossil fuels.

Robster!

Sitting around an doing nothing is a really bad option. You are talking about economics. However, global warming will not only cost trillions of dollars in the future, but also cost the lives of an unforseen number of people.

ZPJ

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Zoltan Paul Jambor

Sitting around an doing nothing is a really bad option. You are talking about economics. However, global warming will not only cost trillions of dollars in the future, but also cost the lives of an unforseen number of people. ZPJ

Yes I'm talking about economics. That's how the world works, in case you hadn't noticed.

You should also know that people tend to discount the future i.e. having to spend a trillion pounds in the future is prefferable to spending a trillion pounds now. In fact, depending on the method used and length of time you are talking about, spending 100 trillion pounds in the future is preferable to spending 1 trillion pounds now.

This is the way the world works. This is what you're up against.

[HEC]

Originally Posted by the Robster

spending 100 trillion pounds in the future is preferable to spending 1 trillion pounds now.

Of course. That way you'll simply get your children to pay for it. With trillions of interest added, as time has a sure way of adding interest to every dollar owed. I can see you like living on credit. You must like credit cards. Be careful Robster, you may never be able to pay back your debts if you let your credit stretch too far. That is exactly the kind of thing people are doing now. The American government is in the same hole. Soon, the hole will be too deep to climb out of. Bankrupcy may soon be knocking on their doorstep as too much money is owed. You aren't very wise when it comes to economics are you Robster? You claim to be, but clearly, you are not. Investing into the environment is just like investing into a business, as we are all one with our environment, and anyone who doesn't see that, like yourself, is missing the large picture. Business simply can't function without a healthy environment, as people run businesses and the only way the businesses will keep on functioning is if people remain healthy and alive.

Getting your offsprings to pay for the money you owe. What a bright idea! I can see you don't plan on having children. But for all of us that do, we refute your ideals as absurd.

HEC[/quote]

[Richard]

Actually I'm one of the few people I know who has no debts whatsoever. I made sure of that after seeing a lot of my family and friends crushed by loan and credit card debt.

Your analogy is wrong anyway. The way businesses think is this:

I can pay 2 billion dollars now to fix a problem that may or may not occur in 100 years time. If i wait 100 years it will cost, say, 20 billion dollars to fix because the problem will have got worse. However, if I invest 1 billion dollars now in a high interest bank account then in 100 years time that will have grown to 20 billion dollars because of compound interest. I can then use this 20 billion dollars to fix the problem.

From a business point of view, the best approach is to invest the smaller amount of money now and then let it grow because of compound interest and then use it to fix the problem in the future. It's cheaper that way than fixing the problem now.

Also, to be able to invest money now I need some capital and the best way to get this is via economic growth and free-market capitalism.

So the best solution is to ignore the problem until after I'm dead, to make a fantastic amount of money for myself right now and to put a little bit of this away to fix any problems that I might create for future generations.

[jaunty albatross]

TheRobster,

Excuse me, but that's really funny. To earn money to save the environment
you need to grow the economy that is destroying it.
Since we can't stop global warming and its consequences, we may as well
have a few laughs on our way out ( ! )

[reality]

It's more a case that people cannot afford to care for the environment until their incomes reach certain levels. Thus by reducing poverty around the world you give people the opportunity to care for things such as their environment. Until poverty is reduced many people will place their priorities in areas such as health, education and shelter. It is a common trend for environmental awareness to rise in line with rises in GDP.

[jaunty albatross]

reality,

Prosperity comes from a growing economy that depends on low-wage
labor to afford reinvestment capital. That's why poverty can never be
reduced but must expand as the capitalist economy expands. If low wage
workers were paid a prosperous wage, capitalism would turn into socialism ( ! )
Thus, humanity is fatally addicted to its ever-growing economy until.....

[reality]

Have you ever studied economics Jaunty?

[Richard]

Jaunty,

The level of poverty in the world is generally dropping, not increasing. Capitalism does not require that people be forced in live in poverty or that they be exploited.

The exception is Africa but that is mainly due to factors other than capitalism/free markets. It's got more to do with corruption, bad economic advice (previously from the WTO) and a poorly run economy.

Materially speaking people are generally better off now than ever before.