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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 27th-June-2008, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kev67 View Post
Which is why I put in that caveat. My feeling is that whatever the 'safe' level of CO2 in the atmosphere is, say 350ppm, the world response will be too little, too late to meet it.
Certainly it's too late for 350ppm.


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Real urgency to tackle the problem won't happen until people see climate change really taking hold, by which time it would be too late. If that happens then a big technological fix will be on the cards.
This might not be as far away as one might hope. The first tipping point representing "dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system", [and] carrying high-casualty and high-cost impacts." (Tipping the scales) is the loss of the Arctic Summer sea ice
... Perhaps this year:

It seems unthinkable, but for the first time in human history, ice is on course to disappear entirely from the North Pole this year. (No ice at the North Pole)
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Old 27th-June-2008, 02:16 PM
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Sorry, I meant 450ppm
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Old 28th-June-2008, 11:09 PM
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Sorry, I meant 450ppm
350 is safer.

The maximum it gets to over the ice age cycle is about 300.

It looks like at 380 there is going to be no Arctic summer sea ice, which is one of the high cost high casualty tipping points that should be avoided.
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Old 29th-June-2008, 08:49 AM
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Check out some details of J Hansen Click Here

Last edited by prashamk; 1st-July-2008 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 30th-June-2008, 10:21 AM
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Are you kidding ? Talk about wilfully blind !
I don't think it retards development to skip the fossil fuel dependent technologies any more that it retards is to skip the steam technologies ... or the stone ones.
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Old 30th-June-2008, 08:46 PM
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Did I ever say check my signature for some details on J Hansen?
Nasa climate reports 'swayed by politics'

Political appointees placed by the Bush administration into senior positions within Nasa's media headquarters acted to play down and distort accounts given to the public of the research findings of its scientists on global warming, an official investigation has concluded.

The space agency's internal watchdog, the inspector general, reports that from autumn 2004 until early 2006 Nasa's central public affairs office handled global warming in a way that "reduced, marginalised, or mischaracterised climate change science made available to the general public".

The confirmation of political interference is vindication for James Hansen, Nasa's chief climate scientist and one of the first to sound the alarm over global warming...
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Old 30th-June-2008, 09:05 PM
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I find it hard to understand this continuing worship of Hansen,Gore and all the other perpetrators of the global warming scam.Day by day we see the errors in the data and computer models on which the whole fraud was based and yet the circus continues to tour.I can see now how suicide cults happen when folks develop these blind beliefs.
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Old 30th-June-2008, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by forfismum View Post
I find it hard to understand this continuing worship of Hansen,Gore and all the other perpetrators of the global warming scam.Day by day we see the errors in the data and computer models on which the whole fraud was based and yet the circus continues to tour.I can see now how suicide cults happen when folks develop these blind beliefs.
I think there is a bigger picture here. Global warming also acts as a convenient veil for the real environmental crimes that will continue on behalf of the mega corporations/untouchable global elite and scientific establishment that may be in bed with the very government imposing draconian measures on us in the name of the environment. GM contamination, bizarre cloning mad science, and the destruction of the rain forests will continue apace while we are still being lectured about light bulbs and beer bottles. And then there is the carbon taxes. Just another way of screwing us , just like the peak oil scam where in reality it is more profitable for oil cartel to pretend there is a shortage to keep prices up. Then there's also the war on terror scam...

Something feels very very wrong about the world today and I think we are in trouble if the general population continue on the road of being politically correct, self preservation and apathy- then we deserve what we get.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 1st-July-2008, 03:51 AM
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Global warming also acts as a convenient veil for the real environmental crimes that will continue on behalf of the mega corporations/untouchable global elite and scientific establishment that may be in bed with the very government imposing draconian measures on us in the name of the environment
The Government don't seem to be in bed with the scientific establishment.

Two years after James E. Hansen, the leading climate scientist at NASA, and other agency employees described a pattern of distortion and suppression of climate science by political appointees, the agency’s inspector general has concluded that such activities occurred and were “inconsistent” with the law that established the space program 50 years ago. (New York Times)

They seem to be working against them.

However the Bush administration does give jobs to disgraced Enron executives who could not work in the industry again because of the fraud they had committed, and it does give large powers and tax breaks to oil multinationals.

So they are firmly on the side of the fossil fuel industry on this.

This is why the IPCC reports are so conservative.

I think that we are entering a new dark age when people like yourself are discarding what the scientists are saying about global warming and instead believing the entire field to be corrupt, at the bequest of your government and of fossil fuel multinationals.

I would say that when science is at odds with science then anything could be the case, but when science is at odds with industry, the church or the state, then the church, the state, or industry are the ones pulling the deceit.
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Old 1st-July-2008, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bored Wombat View Post
The Government don't seem to be in bed with the scientific establishment.

Two years after James E. Hansen, the leading climate scientist at NASA, and other agency employees described a pattern of distortion and suppression of climate science by political appointees, the agency’s inspector general has concluded that such activities occurred and were “inconsistent” with the law that established the space program 50 years ago. (New York Times)

They seem to be working against them.

However the Bush administration does give jobs to disgraced Enron executives who could not work in the industry again because of the fraud they had committed, and it does give large powers and tax breaks to oil multinationals.

So they are firmly on the side of the fossil fuel industry on this.

This is why the IPCC reports are so conservative.

I think that we are entering a new dark age when people like yourself are discarding what the scientists are saying about global warming and instead believing the entire field to be corrupt, at the bequest of your government and of fossil fuel multinationals.

I would say that when science is at odds with science then anything could be the case, but when science is at odds with industry, the church or the state, then the church, the state, or industry are the ones pulling the deceit.
Well who knows what is really going on, but consider this....

Some of the kingpin oil men are actually fanning the flames of the global warming bandwagon. We are seeing new policies to exploit global warming fearmongering to ratchet up taxes and control over how westerners live their lives.Big oil men like the chairman of British Petroleum Peter Sutherland are fanning the flames of global warming hysteria in order to create artificial scarcity and drive up prices, while also getting fat off the peak oil scam, another charade manufactured by the oil companies and embraced by the environmentalists.


European Chairman of the Trilateral Commission, Bilderberger and chairman of British Petroleum Peter Sutherland , gave a speech to the nTrilateral Commission last year in which he issued a "Universal battle cry arose for the world to address “global warming” with a single voice."

Echoing this sentiment was General Lord Guthrie, director of N.M. Rothschild & Sons, member of the House of Lords and former chief of the Defense Staff in London, who urged the Trilateral power-brokers to "Address the global climate crisis with a single voice, and impose rules that apply worldwide."

Allegations that skeptics of the man-made explanation behind global warming are somehow doing the bidding of the elite are laughable in the face of the fact that Rothschild operatives and the very chairman of British Petroleum are the ones orchestrating an elitist plan to push global warming fears in order to achieve political objectives.

It was the Rothschild family itself that helped fund the Rockefellers to create the first giant trusts and oil monopolies in the late 19th century.

Every time a public figure or scientist dares to question the global warming orthodoxy, they are savaged as being in bed with oil companies and yet it is the oil company chieftains that are pushing climate change harder than anyone.

We have a similar situation to the Peak Oil scam, which was created by the oil industry as a profit boon to promote artificial scarcity, and yet is parroted by environmentalists who grandstand as if they are in opposition to the oil companies.

By "fanning public hysteria" over climate change, encouraging further integration by forcing countries to adhere to international law on global warming- Such restrictions will also prevent the development of third world nations.
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