The Environment Site Forums - Blogs http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/ The Environment Site forum is the place to discuss the whole range of environmental issues, from climate change to deforestation. en Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:54:20 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/images/flora/misc/rss.jpg The Environment Site Forums - Blogs http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/ Bloody white vans http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/64-bloody-white-vans.html Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:22:32 GMT Image: http://bp3.blogger.com/_oOZT0MnFY50/RwXmT9W5yAI/AAAAAAAAAPQ/ZRhBKoWakrE/s400/white_van_man.gif Knocked off my bike again yesterday. Did the bastard stop? Did he buggery. :axe:

Knocked off my bike again yesterday. Did the bastard stop? Did he buggery. :axe: ]]> adi http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/64-bloody-white-vans.html What exactly is the winning of the climate change debate going to mean? http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/63-what-exactly-winning-climate-change-debate-going-mean.html Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:29:10 GMT Fun With CO2 in Greenland - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

Elizabeth: “Party is over, deniers. Has been for a long, long time. No matter what way you try to manipulate this, you’re losing.”

- --

Okay, so I agree with you, somehow. But does this mean that we are going to go for a future that is solar, windy, and otherwise renewable, or does this mean that we’re bound to keep destroying this world like we do these days, simply because it is the way of our glorious sportsmen's, pop stars', princes', princesses', actors' and actresses' civilization?

Are we going to go for a future based on military control over nuclear power facilities? Overpopulation, mass crime and starvation, destruction of natural ecosystems at a rate that is unbelievable, pollution of the rivers, the seas, the oceans, the air, the atmosphere and so on and so forth? Because it is the way we live these days. In a civilization which is supposed to take human beings to planets like Mars, Uranus, and, well, different solar systems?

I wonder. What exactly is the winning of the climate change debate going to mean? A change for the better, or rather a defeatist told-you-so…? I know what I would like to see. But it would take a general change of philosophy that is not at all easy to believe in.

— Magne Karlsen
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/63-what-exactly-winning-climate-change-debate-going-mean.html Leapfrog the 20th century http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/62-leapfrog-20th-century.html Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:37:14 GMT Dot Earthers Face to Face - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/dot-earthers-face-to-face/#comment-42406) It’s worth remembering that the biosphere takes up and emits about 15 times as much carbon dioxide per year as is released by burning fossil fuels. However, the biosphere operates in steady state mode - for example, trees produce leaves in the spring and drop them in the fall - and then the leaves are converted back to CO2 and other nutrients by fungi and bacteria. Thus, over thousands of years, there has been little change in atmospheric CO2 due to biosphere emissions. Fossil fuels, in contrast, are made of carbon that last saw the atmosphere some 10-400 million years ago! That’s why burning fossil fuels increases atmospheric CO2, while burning crop-based biofuels does not - biofuel carbon was in the atmosphere the previous year. Thus, biofuel CO2 emissions are fundamentally different from coal CO2 emissions. The problem with biofuels is that if they are produced using fossil fuels, they do nothing to reduce fossil fuel CO2 emissions. In Brazil, fossil fuels are not part of biofuel production, while in the U.S., corn ethanol production relies heavily on fossil fuels. So, how can the developing world deal with all this? Simple - leapfrog the 20th century, aka “The Fossil Fuel Age”, by going straight from pre-industrial agricultural economies to renewable energy-based economies (with solar and wind playing the major role). The main opponents to this plan are those countries whose economies revolve around fossil fuel sales - such as Nigeria, Venezuela, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iraq, Burma, Mexico and Canada, Australia, and the United States. The sad fact is that human civilization has been cursed with an overabundance of coal and oil. If we had hit peak oil and peak coal back in 1930, we would already be running everything using renewable energy systems, and we wouldn’t be facing ecological and economic collapse - but thanks to the pure greed of vested fossil fuel interests, that wasn’t allowed to happen. — Ike Solem Dot Earthers Face to Face - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

It’s worth remembering that the biosphere takes up and emits about 15 times as much carbon dioxide per year as is released by burning fossil fuels.

However, the biosphere operates in steady state mode - for example, trees produce leaves in the spring and drop them in the fall - and then the leaves are converted back to CO2 and other nutrients by fungi and bacteria. Thus, over thousands of years, there has been little change in atmospheric CO2 due to biosphere emissions.

Fossil fuels, in contrast, are made of carbon that last saw the atmosphere some 10-400 million years ago! That’s why burning fossil fuels increases atmospheric CO2, while burning crop-based biofuels does not - biofuel carbon was in the atmosphere the previous year. Thus, biofuel CO2 emissions are fundamentally different from coal CO2 emissions. The problem with biofuels is that if they are produced using fossil fuels, they do nothing to reduce fossil fuel CO2 emissions. In Brazil, fossil fuels are not part of biofuel production, while in the U.S., corn ethanol production relies heavily on fossil fuels.

So, how can the developing world deal with all this? Simple - leapfrog the 20th century, aka “The Fossil Fuel Age”, by going straight from pre-industrial agricultural economies to renewable energy-based economies (with solar and wind playing the major role). The main opponents to this plan are those countries whose economies revolve around fossil fuel sales - such as Nigeria, Venezuela, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Iran and Iraq, Burma, Mexico and Canada, Australia, and the United States.

The sad fact is that human civilization has been cursed with an overabundance of coal and oil. If we had hit peak oil and peak coal back in 1930, we would already be running everything using renewable energy systems, and we wouldn’t be facing ecological and economic collapse - but thanks to the pure greed of vested fossil fuel interests, that wasn’t allowed to happen.

— Ike Solem
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/62-leapfrog-20th-century.html Say Yes To Human Birth Control http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/61-say-yes-human-birth-control.html Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:44:58 GMT Dot Earthers Face to Face - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/dot-earthers-face-to-face/#comment-42342) Just a sobering reminder there is tremendous work to be done. James Kanter has a piece in today’s NY Times. “BARCELONA, Spain — An “extinction crisis” is under way, with one in four mammals in danger of disappearing because of habitat loss, hunting and climate change, a leading global conservation body warned Monday. “Within our lifetime, hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions,” said Julia Marton-Lefčvre, the director general of the International Union for Conservation of Nature, or I.U.C.N., a network of campaign groups, governments, scientists and other experts.” SAY YES TO HUMAN BIRTH CONTROL!!!!!!!! There are quite a few of us who have been concerned about over population of the human species for many, many years now. It’s time Zero Population Growth and any other group designed to civilly and wisely control human population got off their butts and started ramping up the discussion. And for those ready to pounce on this idea as unthinkable, no it isn’t. What is unthinkable and horrifying is a planet populated with ONLY humans and no biodiversity. And I mean all socio economic groups mandated to have only two children. I’m not targeting poor or non white people by any means. That also means anyone concerned about overpopulation of the human species votes against McCain and Palin. If they had their way our grammar schools would be teaching diaper changing techniques for the future fifteen year old Mom’s. Nothing will set the triumphs and achievements of this country back faster than voting those two into office. — Elizabeth Tjader Dot Earthers Face to Face - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

Just a sobering reminder there is tremendous work to be done. James Kanter has a piece in today’s NY Times.

“BARCELONA, Spain — An “extinction crisis” is under way, with one in four mammals in danger of disappearing because of habitat loss, hunting and climate change, a leading global conservation body warned Monday.

“Within our lifetime, hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions,” said Julia Marton-Lefčvre, the director general of the International Union for Conservation of Nature, or I.U.C.N., a network of campaign groups, governments, scientists and other experts.”

SAY YES TO HUMAN BIRTH CONTROL!!!!!!!!

There are quite a few of us who have been concerned about over population of the human species for many, many years now.

It’s time Zero Population Growth and any other group designed to civilly and wisely control human population got off their butts and started ramping up the discussion. And for those ready to pounce on this idea as unthinkable, no it isn’t. What is unthinkable and horrifying is a planet populated with ONLY humans and no biodiversity. And I mean all socio economic groups mandated to have only two children. I’m not targeting poor or non white people by any means.

That also means anyone concerned about overpopulation of the human species votes against McCain and Palin. If they had their way our grammar schools would be teaching diaper changing techniques for the future fifteen year old Mom’s. Nothing will set the triumphs and achievements of this country back faster than voting those two into office.

— Elizabeth Tjader
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/61-say-yes-human-birth-control.html Christmas cake appreciation http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/60-christmas-cake-appreciation.html Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:13:54 GMT God damn, I could eat that stuff breakfast, lunch and dinner. Makes all this faux commercial festivity bearable. :supz: God damn, I could eat that stuff breakfast, lunch and dinner. Makes all this faux commercial festivity bearable. :supz: ]]> adi http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/60-christmas-cake-appreciation.html Wildlife Group Presses Poor Nations on CO2 http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/59-wildlife-group-presses-poor-nations-co2.html Mon, 06 Oct 2008 08:27:02 GMT Wildlife Group Presses Poor Nations on CO2 - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

“It is not good enough for big developing countries to take absolutely no responsibility just because the biggest contributors to climate change are the developed countries,” Mr. Moosa said at the opening ceremony of the congress, held every four years under the auspices of the IUCN.

“America and industrialized nations must lead the way,” he said. “Developing countries like my own must become part of, and abide by, the same set of transparent and enforceable rules,” he said. Mr. Moosa’s comments came ahead of climate-treaty talks in December in Poznań, Poland, that are aimed at pushing forward negotiations on a new global agreement on cutting emissions – and where concerns about allowing emerging economic superpowers like China and India to pollute as much as Western countries is almost certain to be a key stumbling block. ]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/59-wildlife-group-presses-poor-nations-co2.html Ride of the falling leaves http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/58-ride-falling-leaves.html Mon, 06 Oct 2008 07:56:31 GMT Completed the ride of the falling leaves yesterday. 120km around the outskirts of London. The weather was atrocious, raining all the way round, but it was good fun. Here is me atop a particularly nasty little climb. Image: http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v346/86/63/524621141/n524621141_1939352_5711.jpg Completed the ride of the falling leaves yesterday. 120km around the outskirts of London. The weather was atrocious, raining all the way round, but it was good fun. Here is me atop a particularly nasty little climb.

]]> adi http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/adi/58-ride-falling-leaves.html <![CDATA[Cap-and-trade only works to allow politicians to say they're doing something]]> http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/57-cap-trade-only-works-allow-politicians-say-theyre-doing-something.html Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:57:16 GMT Palin and Couric on Climate - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/01/sarahpalin.climatechange

“Her own Alaskan review of the science drew on a joint paper by seven authors, four of whom were well-known climate- change contrarians. Her paper argued that it was “certainly premature, if not impossible” to link temperature rise in Alaska with human CO2 emissions….”

“…One co-author of the paper, Willie Soon, completed the study with funding from ExxonMobil - which has oil operations in Alaska’s North Slope - as well as from the American Petroleum Institute.”

Palin’s energy policy appears to be no energy policy - just help the oil majors do whatever they want, under the guise of “the unregulated market works best” argument. Worked for Wall Street, didn’t it?

McCain and Obama are both advocates of carbon emission reduction via the “free market cap-and-trade approach.” That won’t work either, but it allows politicians to say they’re doing something about it.

To halt the growth of atmospheric CO2, you have to halt the use of fossil fuels as an energy source. Coal, tar sands and heavy crude are the biggest contributors, so replacing them with renewables is the obvious priority. Replacing all U.S. coal power plants with wind/solar systems is certainly possible, just expensive.

Putting $700 billion in that direction would be a good start.

That would get you ~7,000 $100 million renewable energy generation facilities, spread out across 50 states - that would probably be a better economic stimulus package than buying up shady loan derivatives.

Politically, McCain and Palin are like Exxon and BP, but Obama is similar: he is an advocate for tar sand oil production, is very pro-nuclear and is very reluctant to say “wind and solar”, but not reluctant to talk about “clean coal.” Illinois is a coal state, after all, and both Obama and Palin are supporters of the effort to ship Alaskan natural gas to Canada’s tar sand projects: http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-07-17-obama-coal_N.htm

The Obama/Biden energy plan is better than McCain’s but is still mostly useless fluff. They want to “Help create five million new jobs by strategically investing $150 billion over the next ten years to catalyze private efforts to build a clean energy future.” Not too specific, or too likely if the Wall Street bailout goes through. Not everyone would agree that nuclear is all that “clean”, either. McCain, on the other hand, seems dedicated to the military control of foreign oilfields approach to energy security.

Regardless…1) a $700 billion slush fund in one week for Wall Street, or 2) $150 billion stingily dispersed over ten years - including “clean coal” and nuclear funding, or 3) nothing at all… Obama & McCain agree on #1 only.

Do not count on any U.S. politicians to solve the energy problem - they’re too beholden, financially, to the status quo. Public involvement and public pressure are the only real hopes.

— Ike Solem
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/57-cap-trade-only-works-allow-politicians-say-theyre-doing-something.html We started borrowing against the future http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/56-we-started-borrowing-against-future.html Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:06:30 GMT Green Inc.: Wall Street & Energy, Prius Diary - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

For many years past we have been ‘investing’ in bigger houses, bigger autos (SUVs), more entertainment and many other discretionary goodies. To enable this binge on fun and largeness banks have created faux money to loan out. People have happily believed that they would always be able to make more money in the future so why not enjoy the day. Economists have steadily assured us that growth of the GDP meant the economy was healthy. Growth was the objective and in order to continue growing you needed more jobs and more mindless stuff.

What delusion!

We started borrowing against the future. We believed there would always be more. The only problem with this is that all economic work, whether it is directed toward creating true wealth (below) or creating toys, takes energy to accomplish. It takes energy to get energy. As, for example, the amount of work needed to get more oil has been increasing since about the middle of the 20th century. It wasn’t perceptible as long as new oil fields were being discovered and brought on line. But now the size and production of new fields is declining. We are getting LESS net energy with each passing year.

It is net energy available to do useful work that counts and that is now trending downward even as we pump more oil. Unless you increase the amount of energy available (which includes raising efficiency) you don’t grow anything. You can’t even maintain what you already have (bridges?).

Useful work isn’t just building whatever we think we want or need. Useful work is that work that contributes to the future gain or maintenance of the flow of energy. Building and installing windmills that increase net energy would be useful work. Building more efficient autos would be useful work. Building and selling derivatives based on phony money is not useful work. Building huge houses to satisfy egos is not useful work.

We frittered away our energy throughout the 90’s and into this century. We diverted our energy away from useful work and certainly didn’t conserve it. Why, then, is it surprising that one of the effects of the current financial problem (running everything on debt financing, borrowing from the future rather than past savings) is that we find we have not enough real capital which can be directed to truly useful work? Anybody remember the parable story of the industrious ant and the foolish grasshopper?

We are all grasshoppers.

You are invited to take a look at a very different kind of analysis of the problem based on physical reality vs. ephemeral invented concepts of money.

http://questioneverything.typepad.com/
scroll down the page to the posting, Current events - what is going on in the financial markets.

— George Mobus
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/56-we-started-borrowing-against-future.html Seeking people who are genuinely interested in the environment and entrepreneurship http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/hannam189/55-seeking-people-who-genuinely-interested-environment-entrepreneurship.html Wed, 01 Oct 2008 17:41:11 GMT I am looking for people who want to help the environment out, people who want to preserve trees and make the air clean... even more importantly people who are interested in entrepreneurship, and starting something that will benefit the environment/trees/air... If you are at all drawn in by any of this contact me to hear more about my idea on how to combine all of these aspects to create something amazing. I am really hoping to find someone who is motivated, intelligent, and an overall kind and understanding person. I am looking for people who want to help the environment out, people who want to preserve trees and make the air clean... even more importantly people who are interested in entrepreneurship, and starting something that will benefit the environment/trees/air... If you are at all drawn in by any of this contact me to hear more about my idea on how to combine all of these aspects to create something amazing.
I am really hoping to find someone who is motivated, intelligent, and an overall kind and understanding person. ]]> HannaM189 http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/hannam189/55-seeking-people-who-genuinely-interested-environment-entrepreneurship.html <![CDATA[Al Gore: "We need a new start."]]> http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/54-al-gore-we-need-new-start.html Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:16:54 GMT The (Annotated) Gore Energy Speech - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/the-annotated-gore-climate-speech/) July 17, 2008 What if we could use fuels that are not expensive, don’t cause pollution and are abundantly available right here at home? We have such fuels. *Scientists have confirmed that enough solar energy falls on the surface of the earth every 40 minutes to meet 100 percent of the entire world’s energy needs for a full year. *Tapping just a small portion of this solar energy could provide all of the electricity America uses. And enough wind power blows through the Midwest corridor every day to also meet 100 percent of US electricity demand. Geothermal energy, similarly, is capable of providing enormous supplies of electricity for America. The quickest, cheapest and best way to start using all this renewable energy is in the production of electricity. In fact, we can start right now using solar power, wind power and geothermal power to make electricity for our homes and businesses. But to make this exciting potential a reality, and truly solve our nation’s problems, we need a new start. - Al Gore The (Annotated) Gore Energy Speech - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

July 17, 2008

What if we could use fuels that are not expensive, don’t cause pollution and are abundantly available right here at home? We have such fuels. Scientists have confirmed that enough solar energy falls on the surface of the earth every 40 minutes to meet 100 percent of the entire world’s energy needs for a full year. Tapping just a small portion of this solar energy could provide all of the electricity America uses. And enough wind power blows through the Midwest corridor every day to also meet 100 percent of US electricity demand. Geothermal energy, similarly, is capable of providing enormous supplies of electricity for America.

The quickest, cheapest and best way to start using all this renewable energy is in the production of electricity. In fact, we can start right now using solar power, wind power and geothermal power to make electricity for our homes and businesses. But to make this exciting potential a reality, and truly solve our nation’s problems, we need a new start.

- Al Gore
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/54-al-gore-we-need-new-start.html Banjo http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/53-banjo.html Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:07:39 GMT Generation E’s Task: Protest or Invention? - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com (http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/generation-es-task-protest-or-invention/#comments) Being a “young person” who has been involved in civil disobedience to try and stop the climate crisis, I am A. of course frustrated by our wanna-be leaders who like to tell us what we need to be doing but won’t put themselves in harms way. B. am equally frustrated by the arrogance of those who assume that if we’re chaining ourselves to things that we are some how politically unengaged, and also have no more problem telling us what we need to be doing than Mr. Gore does Mr. Revkin, you say I need to… -vote… okay, done, doesn’t help much when there aren’t any viable candidates who are actually calling for solutions (no, clean coal isn’t a solution). So this November should I be voting for clean coal and nuclear development on the left or clean coal and nuclear development on the right? -learn… wow, Mr. Revkin, while educating ourselves about the problem and potential solutions are important, the implication is that those of us “breaking the law” are not doing this. Maybe you should spend sometime living near a mountain that is getting blasted into dust to get the coal that’s cooking our planet ( http://www.ilovemountains.org/endangered/ ) before you presume to tell me i’m not spending enough time learning. -engage… energy audits and participation in local organizing and initiatives… done. This work is on-going. If you would like to learn something yourself (about how easily our laws can be abused and ignored) I’d suggest attending some strip mine permit hearings. -Create… yep we’re doing this too, some folks are working in, studying, and creating clean energy and sustainable solutions. Despite the fact that many such efforts already exist. The bigger problem is that government and established industry are continuing to shovel resources into the dangerous fossil fuel dead end. So in response to Mr. Romm, no matter how may individuals realize that they need to start conserving. Without serious action by industry and government to shift (quickly) the way we produce and consume, individual action is meaningless. The number of new coal plants somewhere in the permiting or construction process is actually around 100 (Stopping the Coal Rush :: Sierra Club (http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/coal/plantlist.asp)). If most of them go online then we’ve ruined our chances of avoiding the worst effects of climate change. Stopping these plants, and using the resources going to build them (sticking us with another 50 years of dirty energy) to catalyze a transition to clean energy production is the only way I can see us getting out of this mess. So cheers to everyone else out there who is part of this movement that is using all the tools in the tool box (including civil disobedience) to hold industry and government accountable for dragging their feet at this critical moment. …and don’t worry, I’m sure that as we continue to build this mass movement sooner or later the “leaders” will cut to the front of the line. Joe http://www.wiseupdominion.org/ — Banjo - -- Before people can really start to believe that thinking and talking about the environment is going to prove worthwhile at all, I think it is very important that the political - industrial leaders start dealing with oil, gas, and coal as the toxic substances that they are, and make people believe that we are indeed going to start making use of other and cleaner sources of energy, like solar and wind, and start doing so quickly. People need to come to believe that a change for the better is at all possible! As for now it seems to me like people have every good reason to simply give up to that uh huh feeling that the military-industrial complex actually has no intention to making way for any changes what-so-ever. And it is true to say that the ball is on their side of the field now. They decide. People just follow. — Magne Karlsen Generation E’s Task: Protest or Invention? - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

Being a “young person” who has been involved in civil disobedience to try and stop the climate crisis, I am

A. of course frustrated by our wanna-be leaders who like to tell us what we need to be doing but won’t put themselves in harms way.

B. am equally frustrated by the arrogance of those who assume that if we’re chaining ourselves to things that we are some how politically unengaged, and also have no more problem telling us what we need to be doing than Mr. Gore does

Mr. Revkin, you say I need to…

-vote… okay, done, doesn’t help much when there aren’t any viable candidates who are actually calling for solutions (no, clean coal isn’t a solution). So this November should I be voting for clean coal and nuclear development on the left or clean coal and nuclear development on the right?

-learn… wow, Mr. Revkin, while educating ourselves about the problem and potential solutions are important, the implication is that those of us “breaking the law” are not doing this. Maybe you should spend sometime living near a mountain that is getting blasted into dust to get the coal that’s cooking our planet ( http://www.ilovemountains.org/endangered/ ) before you presume to tell me i’m not spending enough time learning.

-engage… energy audits and participation in local organizing and initiatives… done. This work is on-going. If you would like to learn something yourself (about how easily our laws can be abused and ignored) I’d suggest attending some strip mine permit hearings.

-Create… yep we’re doing this too, some folks are working in, studying, and creating clean energy and sustainable solutions. Despite the fact that many such efforts already exist. The bigger problem is that government and established industry are continuing to shovel resources into the dangerous fossil fuel dead end.

So in response to Mr. Romm, no matter how may individuals realize that they need to start conserving. Without serious action by industry and government to shift (quickly) the way we produce and consume, individual action is meaningless. The number of new coal plants somewhere in the permiting or construction process is actually around 100 (Stopping the Coal Rush :: Sierra Club). If most of them go online then we’ve ruined our chances of avoiding the worst effects of climate change. Stopping these plants, and using the resources going to build them (sticking us with another 50 years of dirty energy) to catalyze a transition to clean energy production is the only way I can see us getting out of this mess.

So cheers to everyone else out there who is part of this movement that is using all the tools in the tool box (including civil disobedience) to hold industry and government accountable for dragging their feet at this critical moment.

…and don’t worry, I’m sure that as we continue to build this mass movement sooner or later the “leaders” will cut to the front of the line.

Joe

http://www.wiseupdominion.org/

— Banjo


- --


Before people can really start to believe that thinking and talking about the environment is going to prove worthwhile at all, I think it is very important that the political - industrial leaders start dealing with oil, gas, and coal as the toxic substances that they are, and make people believe that we are indeed going to start making use of other and cleaner sources of energy, like solar and wind, and start doing so quickly. People need to come to believe that a change for the better is at all possible! As for now it seems to me like people have every good reason to simply give up to that uh huh feeling that the military-industrial complex actually has no intention to making way for any changes what-so-ever. And it is true to say that the ball is on their side of the field now. They decide. People just follow.

— Magne Karlsen
]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/53-banjo.html Talk http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/52-talk.html Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:04:28 GMT Generation E’s Task: Protest or Invention? - Dot Earth Blog - NYTimes.com

TALK. - Talk about the problems concerned with the state of the general environment of this planet. TALK! And don’t allow all these old folks to dictate that any talk about the environment is to be considered taboo, out-of-bounds, socially unacceptable, dangerous, despicable, and what else? Derogative? Don’t allow the business-as-usualists to stifle all discussions under the guise that nothing is up with the weather systems of this planet, and if it is, well, it is only natural phenomenons that have nothing to do with human misbehaviour. Let these people know that it is just about time we started to take the science seriously! - And that there is plenty of solar energy for everyone to make use of, - if only we made the decision to do away with this blatant fossil-fuels addiction of ours: a matter of tradition, convenience, and very bad judgement which is simply too stupid! Yeah: TALK. Speak freely. If talking about the bitter side-effects of fossil-fuels consumption has it’s own way of bringing you and everybody else down, do talk about the positive alternatives to fossil-fuels. I think it should makes things so much easier. Just don’t stop talking.

— Magne Karlsen
- --

EARTH MATTERS

#28 MK Talk: Yes, the time has come for us to find our voice. I have made a personal commitment to speak to anyone who will listen. I participate in DE primarily to search for my personal voice, my story. Please share with us something about the conversations you are having. For instance, I was back home sitting around a campfire with a nephew and his wife. She asked if I believed in global warming. She teaches at a small Jewish day school and had been asked to develop a green program for the school and asked if I could help her. This is not my field but there are a few teachers in our local sustainability group that I hope to connect her with.

#50 ET writes, “People in general seem very disconnected and lonely as a whole if you ask me.” I agree. We are desparate for a message that reminds us that we are part of a community, a message that reminds us that we are so much more than what we consume. What is this message? How do I deliver the message to others so that they feel connected? What can I say about AGW that does not simply make folks more full of guilt and angst. I visited with my brother recently and, as always, struggled to keep the conversation from descending into political bickering. He is a republican so I showed him how he could get from http://www.whitehouse.gov to http://www.climatescience.gov in 4 mouse clicks. I was struggling for some way to help him see that even the Bush administration is very serious about AGW. I was hoping that he would discover that this is not just a green/left/environmental/socialist agenda. I wanted him to know that there was huge body of evidence for AGW in the conservative corner that was not getting reported. I wanted to build a bridge between his politics and mine. I like to think that in his heart my brother is a great liberal and environmentalist.

I encourage everyone at DE to speak out to others about what you feel and believe to be the truth.
— CoolPlanet
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#61 - CoolPlanet

That was one terrific post! I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said, and I share the pein you experience in trying to have other people, like your brother, connect with your knowledge, ideas, and feelings.

As for the conversations I am having, er, well, let me tell you the truth: I live in Norway: a country in which the entire population does not give a damn about the environment. It seems to me as if they all think the environment is a train that has already left the station, and that the worst thing you can ever do is start thinking about the situation. So the truth is: I do not indulge in any conversations about the state of the world and its diverse environments; not with anyone. And I know, deep in my soul, that a situation that cannot be talked about can never be solved. Norwegians do not seem to recognize the thought that the environment is fixable, and that, I believe, is the reason why noone here is able to talk about the problem. - I’ve got to make use of Carl Jung’s concept of “collective unconscious” - and here in Norway, it is clear to me that people share in the feeling that there is no use talking about the unstated, and most unwelcome, “fact” that we are doomed. So people do not think about it, or they actively deny it, and live their lives as if nothing serious is up. But I’ve heard a few people say that a warmer climate is only good for us. And that’s true. A few farmers have every reason to cheer up around here, - but that will be in the short term. And that’s true: unless we get over our fossil-fuels fixation, and deal with this addiction, I really don’t know what to think about the long term.

I think it is very important that people, politicians, industry leaders, and media people start playing up the alternatives to fossil-fuels! I mean: we’ve got the sun, the wind, and the waves, and those sources of energy are clean!

I think it is equally important that industry leaders come out in favour of protecting the rain forests of this world.

If these two things were to happen, I feel confident that the psychological / mental crisis of ours, as concerns the state of the environments of this planet, will subside. :-)
— Magne Karlsen

]]> August http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/august/52-talk.html anyone interested in e-waste? http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/ewastenz/51-anyone-interested-e-waste.html Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:03:32 GMT I am currently establishing an e-waste processing operation in Hawke's Bay, on the sunny east coast of New Zealand.

Awareness of the many issues around e-waste are just beginning to come to the surface in NZ. New Legislation is imminent, but full implementation of provisions is likely to take a number of years.

Operations to gather e-waste started a few months ago - this is part of a multi-staged research project to identify the nature, source and volume of this waste stream. Following analysis, waste materials (that are not reusable) are de-manufactured, and classified to various disposal chain streams.

During the course of research I became aware of a potential 1,000 tonnes of e-waste, originating in New Zealand, that was destined for de-manufacturing and other recovery, recycling processes in the Republic of Korea.

The problem is that I am unable to find any references to the companies in Korea that are said to be carrying out these processes. Requests for information from Korean Ministries and Trade Offices have received no response.

The companies are: DBI Tech Ltd, Yongnamsuji, Samjingup and LG Niggojeryun.

Would like to hear from anyone that can confirm the existence of these companies (I can not search in Korean), or provide contact detail for me.

ewaste@ething.co.nz ]]> ewastenz http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/ewastenz/51-anyone-interested-e-waste.html Luv2BeGreen! http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/joannlynn/50-luv2begreen.html Thu, 18 Sep 2008 00:46:05 GMT Hi! Even though i am pretty new at this blogging just thought i would say hi! I am very anxious to talk to some of you, i love making new friends and exchanging ideas with people! I am definately a green person, love the earth and want to do what i can to make it better! e-mail me and lets visit! Hi! Even though i am pretty new at this blogging just thought i would say hi! I am very anxious to talk to some of you, i love making new friends and exchanging ideas with people! I am definately a green person, love the earth and want to do what i can to make it better! e-mail me and lets visit! ]]> Joannlynn http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/forum/blogs/joannlynn/50-luv2begreen.html