[cbacba]

Originally Posted by Windguy

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn443-global-warning.html

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Glo...ng/Methane.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

http://www.grist.org/comments/intera...ef/index1.html

They are partial to explaining GW runaway.

Cbacba - climate scientists are predicting clouds have a slightly positive feedback, not negatve as you are saying, but no one knows for sure, consider where the clouds will most likely to be formed, at night and colder regions. England cloudy, Australia sunny maybe?

Secondly, increasing heat in the atmosphere doesn't mean increase in clouds, just means the atmosphere can hold more H2O before forming clouds or raining.

Clouds tend to form here during the day and dissipate at night. I don't recall ever being anywhere that it clouds over at night after being clear during the day on a regular basis. That would imply too that most all rainfall occurs at night, my experience is quite the opposite. In fact, thunderstorms form during the day, rain and virtually always dissipate with the declining impact of solar heating on the cloud tops.

A quick and dirty 1% variation on increasing cloud cover on the model indicates the following: Surface energy absorption down 1.86W/m^2, albedo up 1.5W/m^2 reducing total energy coming in. Surface to space radiation down 1.48W/m^2 and total absorption of the earth+atmosphere down 1.46W/m^2. This is energy balance.

Note that the earth cools because there is less incoming energy by 0.36 W/m^2. While there is less surface to space radiation, it's about the same as the increase in albedo and about the same as the decrease in total system absorption.

Since the cloud cover appears to decrease energy flow, and hence temperature of the surface, but doesn't appear to really change the atmospheric temperature in this 'delta' analysis.

Net result, cooler surface, essentially unchanged atmospheric temperature, less indwelling radiation making it through.

Considering cloud formation appears to be tied in with cosmic rays, aerosols, particulates and the like, it's going to be impossible to separate out in the real world who is doing what to whom.

Clouds form generally above 2km. In the temperate zone, thats 285K to 265k typical temperature. Suffice to say that higher up it's going to be freezing and below up there. Midrange clouds where t-storms come from are 2-5km base with tops that can go rather far up.

when h2o evaporates, it forms a light molecule about 18 (mol. weight) compared to the average of 28.8 or so. It is lower density and will tend to rise - like a helium filled balloon tends to rise. Going up, that means the pressure is reducing. Assuming adiabatic (no energy gained or lost) expansion due to lower pressure (checkout the ideal gas law for that one) the temperature will drop.

The air may hold more h2o vapor at the surface, but all that means is there's more to rise. The temperature at the surface isn't the temperature high in the sky and warmer air going up with the h2o is going to cool off also.

If you think about what you're saying, you'll eventually realize that hurricanes and typhoons form in the summer time in the tropics, not during winter time at the poles. The ramifications of what you are saying would dispute that fact.