[reality]

"Guns don't kill people. Bullets kill people." "HIV doesn't kill people. It just makes them susceptible to other dieseases", etc. This is the type of nonsense argument you make here.

Please prove to me the role that increased GHG levels played in Hurricane Charly last month and in Hurricane Frances a few days ago. Be sure to break down its role in detail. Several dozen people died in the two events. Please detail the role that GW played in their deaths.

Can't do it? Neither can I, nor can anyone else. All we can say is that perhaps it played a role. Given that we cannot quantify the role it played in these events, or any other weather event for that matter, we cannot make any specific statement about GW "Killing" people and we certainly cannot make any statement about it "killing 10X more people..."

It is this kind of strident post that muddies the waters without adding anything of value to the discussion. If we are willing to take one extreme to task for their, "the economy will collapse if we do anything..." arguments, we must be consistent and not overstate the other side of the issue.

While no individual death may with certainty be ascribed to climate change, a changing climate may cause extra deaths in a statistical sense. To what extent the evidence that climate change is responsible for the number described in Hannu's links is another question. It is so very hard to separated different causes in this kind of investigations.

We're arguing on the same side of the point. Look at what you said: "a changing climate MAY cause extra deaths...". Look at what I said, "All you can say is that increasing atmospheric GHG levels MAY be a contributing factor." Look at the title of this thread, "Global warming KILLS 10X more..." Huge difference. In the first two cases, we're acknowledging the potential role that increased GHG levels are having on weather and the downstream impact of that weather on mortality. In the latter, Hannu is claiming that that role has been quantified and definitive measurements have shown how many people have succumbed due to it. That is complete nonsense.